I find it difficult to see how the equivalent of roughly 400 euros can represent 75% of the Stockholm-Dubai segment of an itinerary in First when the entire trip cost the equivalent of around 4,600 euros. (I am assuming a return/roundtrip booking.)

Even if the trip was from Stockholm to eastern Australia, with the onward mileage from Dubai roughly twice that of Stockholm-Dubai, a back-of-envelope calculation gives a refund of around 575 euro (4,600 divided by six, multiplied by 75%). If the final destination was closer to DXB than this, the pro rata refund should be even greater.

Do we know where the poster was going after leaving DXB? (Apologies if this information can be found elsewhere in this thread.)

My own opinion (FWIW !) is that option 1 is your best bet.

I will be VERY surprised if EK improve on their offer here - although I would be happy to be proven wrong......

Sometimes the law is not quite as black & white as it might first seem. Despite the apparently clear case you feel there is in your favour, a judge could very easily take a different view. In particular, judges will expect a claimant to have made an effort to mitigate as much as possible the effects of any loss of benefit, financial or otherwise.

You were offered the option to travel in first class but decided against. Even if you are able to show that a schedule change from your original booked flight would have caused you material problems (and hence your choice to travel in business class instead), then Emirates will say that the reimbursement of 75% of the pro-rata cost of your first sector to DXB is correct compensation for that. And I feel that a judge will very likely agree.

Finally, I happen to think that (in this particular case at least) Emirates will not be fazed by any threat to pursue legal avenues. They will have some pretty good legal eagles of their own, and Customer Affairs will almost certainly have been guided by them when framing their final response.

Last Summer I got the same email from Emirates (even same employee). I asked many times for the calculation of the compensation but they didn't want to tell me.
They also wrote "thank you for allowing us to explain our position". After that they didn't reply my messages.

I took EK to court and I will know the outcome next month. I will tell you more.

I know that the rules Äre a bit fuzzy on this occasion. The rules says what it says and when I read to it should be 75% of the whole ticket. For me to be downgraded and only get 3470SEK feels like a punch in the face. If you compare me sitting in a emty F cabin witch gives me a very personal service. Then get downgraded to a fully booked C cabin....

I will take this further to the Swedish NEB called ARN and they will solve this.

Thanks for all the help so far. I hope to get a compensation that are fair for me witch in this case I don't think this is.....

I really would not go to any NEB; the NEBs don't seem to be in the pockets of the airlines in EU261 rather than impartial. Just simply write to EK saying that you do not accept their offer , quote the relevent part of the regulation , highlighting that there is NO reference to pro-rating of fare nor that you could have changed to another flight removes their obligation. State that they have 7 days to reimburse the amount of EURxxx or that you will initiate proceedings to recover it

Then give them 2 weeks after posting it to them ( use a recorded delivery service and get proof of delivery ) and go to whatever process exists in Sweden for small claims

You might want to send a copy of it to the Swedish NEB as well, but do not rely on a National Enforcement Body to actually manage to enforce anything

I have related to the articel 10.2 and Everything telling then that it should be payed out 7 Days after downgrade. They still reply with this emails. I will give them one more chance and if they don't reply with the offer that I claim I go further....

Have you actually informed EK that you will refer it to court? If so, then just start proceedings , otherwise write back reiterating that their offer is not in accordance with EU261 and that you will initiate proceedings in 7 days

I have done that now and waiting awnser. Befor that email I sended and sad that i still dont accept the offer and keep refeering to the articel 10.2. They responded whit this.

Thank you for your email messages of 17 and 22 January.


I regret to learn that you remain unhappy with our response.

Emirates is always pleased to comply with legislation in effect, in all of the jurisdictions in which we operate.

May I reiterate that in accordance with the EC regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union, you are entitled to a 75% refund of the sector fare for the effected route and not 75% percent of the total ticket fare as you claim.

I look forward to receiving the completed Payment form.

Thank you for allowing me to restating our final position.




Seems like this is the only thing they will offer me as they say final position...... Time to take this to court!

This is the logical progression

So its time to take this further?

There is not point continuing to debate it with EK

Really, the choice is to either accept their offer or take legal action. Personally I would initiate a small claim against the airline

When it gets the details it will either make a new improved offer ( if it believes it may lose ) or gamble with what a judge will adjudicate

I have responded one more time to EK about this mather. I told them if this is only what they have to offer i will take this futher and take legal action.

I will come back when they respond!

I would save the time and effort and just start proceedings; it has stated twice that it will not move from its offer

Do you think I will get the same thing if I try to claim for a 5 hour delay? Ie they won't pay? I don't want to threaten legal action if I can help it (this was for my parents not me).

Well, it is them who needs to claim it, not you of course.

What was the cause of the delay?

Assuming it was an ex EU departure and not an exempt reason, then get them to put their claim in and see what EK says

Depending on what country it was, there is a company that takes online claims and progresses them for a percentage cost; might be easy to use it if EK tries to deny the claim and don't want to put too much effort in

5 hours ex MAN on EK 18 the A180 :rolleyes: They were on the way to MRU. Technical fault - not sure they disclosed it fully :rolleyes:

Just wondering if they will just pay or it will be a scrap.

I have now prepared a letter to Emirates for this downgrade and addressed it to the Customer Affairs Department in Dubai. Is there any email address to send it to instead of mailing it since I don't know how long this letter will take in the mail and if it was received? Thanks.

Put the claim in and see whether it tries denying it. If it does and you are happy to let a company take a cut, then let euclaim.co.uk handle it

Should I send it by mail or?

Personally, I would always send such letters by post with proof of delivery so that company has no credible defence of not having received it.

It will definitely be a scrap, they make their own rules.

We were downgraded from F on the way back from our Wedding. They sent their offer but there was no negotiation as they then ignored all our emails.

Small claims court or NWNF lawyer should grab their attention.

In UK, using a solicitor would be at the claimant's own expense. Paying for a solicitor ( even out of winnings ) would severely negate the value

If it is a downgrade situation , just claiming though small claims is an easy procedure and needs no legal expertise

If it is a delay/cancellation, then if not wanting to spend time dealing with it , companies like euclaim are a easy solution

I think euclaim/Bott and Co take about 27% of any winnings as their fee (plus VAT?).

Some will deem that acceptable even for the simplest of cases.

For those that do not want to do their own small claim, then 73% of the amount due is better than the zero that not proceeding would give

27% of EUR250 is only EUR67.50 and of EUR600 its only EUR162 which do not seem that bad

Fortunately my parents have their own legal counsel (me).

I don't want to commence proceedings so will start with the letter before action and see what happens...

FWIW, on Feb 5th, the EU passed some draft amendments which clarifies the compensation for involuntary Downgrades. I'm not sure of the process to finally enact them however.

The main thing is that compensation is based on "Flight Price", not "Ticket Price".

Draft changes start from page 11: amending Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 establishing common rules ...

The full lists of amendments to this draft in the passing of this are here in this 2.1 MByte word document

Starts from page 341: Wednesday, 5 February 2014 - Strasbourg - texts (Part 3)

"Ticket Price" has been removed from article 10 to be replaced by (newly defined) "Flight Price":
"Ticket Price" has been specifically defined as well:

Thanks for posting this! So the issue whether you will be reimbursed based on the price of the whole ticket or just the downgraded sector is resolved. It goes in favour of the airline, but I would say it's also more logical.

If the legislators never intended refunds to be always based on ticket prices, it staggers belief that this was what ended up in the wording of the directive. Any fool could have told them using ticket prices would cause ambiguity and confusion. An astonishing degree of incompetence.

I always thought that the use of ticket price in all cases could not be defended and that the UK Civil Aviation Authority's guidance made sense.

Hi,

Just to let you guys know. Still up with a fight with Emirates about my downgrade. At this point its in the hands of the swedish ARN witch is the NEB in sweden. Emirates still offers the same 75% of the sector fare witch is 3470SEK on a downgrade from F -> C ARN-DXB.

I have also tried to get Emirates to compensate me with upgrade vouchers or other thing that I might use in future travels with them.

Hi there Simonsays

In light of the comprehensive post by serfty above, I am more inclined than ever to believe that this is now a fight you will not win. But of course no harm in trying I guess.

It seems to me that (notwithstanding what might have gone before) Emirates are keen to draw a line in the sand and not be pushed into refunding amounts of money that they feel is not only unjustified, but - in fairness to them - quite irrational. They will have drafted their responses to you on the back of considered advice from their specialist legal team (ie rather than some unqualified member of the customer services department)

Plus ..... based on information provided by serfty, Emirates now have the full force of clearly-defined legislation behind them.

In short I find it hard to imagine any grounds for a Judge to rule against them.

Even if there are changes subsequent to 5th february, anything before 5th february woul be unaffected

Rather than messing around with EK and the NEB, isn't it time to finally stop discussing and simply start proceedings. Once it knows you are serious about proceeding , it may change its tune

I will wait 2 more days for the Swedish NEB ARN to get reponse from EK. 6 march is the last day so I hope to get a verdict from them this or next week.

I asked Emirates for a compensation like a money voucher on EK to use in the future. I pointed out that I want it to be on a higher amount then the cash compensation they offerd me. Guess what.... they offer me the same 3470SEK for Electronic Miscellaneous Document that they call it...

If i want to send it to court I have to take it to the UAE court? Since the swedish will not try this case according to the rules they have!

In the uae it is a painful process and expensive and time consuming to bring a case to court.

If you did it in Sweden I'm not sure how you would enforce the judgement obtained in Sweden here in dubai. I'm sure that if ek was found against In any court they'd pay up but if they were feeling like being difficult the difficulty of trying to enforce an overseas judgement is there.

If the Swedish courts won't help you then I suggest you take eks offer.

You would sue in the local country. The EU261 legislation applies to Sweden. You will simply sue the Swedish Emirates entity

We got the dreaded email last night from Expedia informing us of the Change of class from 1 st to Business on the 1st of 4 legs only. Outbound GLA to DXB 20th March. Expedia asking me to confirm changes. Should I call Emirates first and having read all the relevant threads what should I expect to be offered as it all seems random? Any advice would be gratefully received. Had a feeling this would happen as yesterday when I logged in to MMB we were still the only 2 passengers in F. Tad disappointed to say the least
:(

Emirates do have a local office and have about 20 employees. I have a good contact there who have tried to help me but they cant do anything since its the office in Dubai who makes all the decisions.

I could go to court and claim it through the Swedish office according to Swedish court.

That the local office has no authority from Dubai to help at the moment, a successful claim in court will override this. I would not be too surprised if EK changes its offer once it sees you are serious in proceeding

I did send a email saying that I have talked to my laywer and a prosecutor I know and that we will take this to court. I sad that this is unacceptable to treat a paying first class passenger like this.

I also in the same email still claimed the 75% refund of the tickerprice. The answer i got was this:


They just show me a big finger in the face, WE DECIDE, you Listen!

Saying that you have spoken to a lawyer is not the same as actually initiating a claim against the airline. Don't talk to the airline, just initiate proceedings and either the airline will admit the claim or negotiate or possibly let the court decide

I would be surprised if it went for the latter option