Look up the alphabetical upgrade thread. It'll keep you amused.

It used to be done apparently at the whim of the local staff in a lot of places. A couple of years ago, the DXB guidelines seemed to get more rigidly enforced throughout the network and we saw the status related situation.

It now seems a new set of guidelines have been rolled out, not to the benefit of Skywards members.

Who could have guessed that the interests of those owning the program and setting the rules would prevail above the members :-).

Maybe it's time to wake up to fact that both members and "loyalty" programs are driven by one thing.... to get the most out of it for themselves. No actual loyalty involved there.

Yes, unfortunately those that think about these things, like most here on FT, are very much in the minority.

Anyway, they are giving more "profits" for Flex Plus fares - which are quite expensive.

e.g. random dates in November, WAW-KUL-WAW
5431PLN in Y Flex Plus both ways,
5910PLN Combo: J one way (saver), Y one way (saver).

Flex Plus is usually 60% more then Flex, they could call it "Premium Class" (just with the same seats as Y) and add benefits like lounge access, noise cancelling headphones from J (if available), fast track access, quicker baggage delivery etc.
This way it would be more clear that "premium" passenger is upgraded before any other Y fare.

at the same time
WAW-KUL-WAW is
2681PLN in Y Saver
3056PLN in Y Flex
so the price difference between Saver and Flex, at least in this situation, is not that huge.

The question is though, if people are already buying Flex Plus fares for the current product, why would you want to give them more for free?

Having a high fare Y ticket is also a useful signal to customers that "oh look, J Saver is a really good deal!" and nudges them towards that product.

How is this for a revolutionary idea.

If you pay for an economy ticket you get a seat in economy, pay for a Business Class you get to sit in Business and if you pay for First Class that's what you get.

If you want to upgrade you pay for it

I will get my tin hat and head for cover

The question is if we can have more people who buy Flex Plus fare.
I've no idea what's the answer.


(and what - not expensive for airline - give them for free e.g. lounge access in Dubai for some more pax is maybe not that expensive? I found this place e.g. in A rather empty at the end of the lounge)

But "main idea" was that maybe upgrading any pax with Flex Plus fare first is not that 'bad' if we see it as pax who actually bought higher class (like "Premium", just with name "Flex Plus"

Yes, it can work like that perfectly.

But airlines sometimes like to move someone from Economy to Business because Economy is oversold or business is totally empty.

so the question is still there: who should be selected for upgrade?
randomly? (e.g. "which letter I like"?)
by status tier? (e.g. "lets upgrade platinum first, they fly with us so frequently")
by fare? (e.g. "upgrade those who pay more")
by age? (.e.g. "lets upgrade this 75 years old guy, he may really need better seat")
by account history? (e.g. "upgrade this guy who is flying with us for 25 years, although currently no status)

This is a valid point but people want to know what the rules are when EK oversell which they do daily.

I've not been upgraded in about 2 years by the way.

I don't think there'll be any change in purchasing behaviour at all, given that:

1. The fact op-ups exist is known by a large percentage, but not all travellers
2. The fact op-ups are "operational" and related to oversold cabins is known by a smaller fraction of 1.
3.The fact op-ups are not based on your clothing at check-in and your friendliness towards check-in staff is known by only a sub-set of 2.
4. Op-up policy is not published or reliably known
5. Most people wouldn't want to pay $200 more for a "possibility" of an upgrade


Seriously? I wonder why....:D

That's what I don't understand. People paying for flex plus would generally be flying for business, so will always book flex plus.

Do EK seriously believe that current saver passengers will book flex plus on the off chance that they may get an upgrade?

I'll answer that for them... 95% of saver passengers wouldn't know that op-ups exist, never mind that they can improve their chances by paying double their normal fare.

It's bizzarre... and I say this as an EK Blue :D

I think that's the pax they want to focus on - if you are always buying flex plus for business then you are likely to have status anyway (so it doesn't affect you) but there are some regular flex plus pax who don't fly long enough routes to achieve gold etc.

EK are rewarding the high margin pax regardless of status with better upgrade chances to try and get regular high margin business.

They clearly want those pax over people who buy one F tkt to Australia a year get gold and then get rewarded with op-ups all year on cheapo specials: or their data shows that most of their top tier pax are captive through corporate travel or hub travellers anyway and get status because of someone else's decision.

I had gone more than 2 years without an oppup (I've been silver or better for nearly 5 years - managed gold only.one year but might reuify this year) but then got four of us on same ticket oppupped BKK DXB (two blues and one teenager) and then next day got.oppupped MAN DXB (but that was day afyer the incident that at Dubai and my original flight was cancelled). Think I've probably had my next five year's worth of luck (on Tuesday LUN DXB was full in economy and I couldn't even use mile to upgrade becuase business was full as well)

This is just to offer something more for pax who paid more.

almost the same way as op up from Business to First is more popular then from Economy to First ;)

anyway, really business will be so happy to buy flex Plus fares if cheaper are available?
The change cost for Flex tickets is not that bad.
Flex Plus is just better for earning miles and spending them.

Is there any study behind this ?
Do they have any data showing that such change would bring more revenues in the future ?
Let's say you have a plat saver and a silver flex. Upgrading either of them on a particular flight doesn't increase cost, nor revenue. So, upgrading one or the other, doesn't change anything profit wise.
But, if a study shows that an upgraded flex silver will have a higher probability to buy another flex ticket than an upgraded saver plat, then it makes sense.
In such case, it would no more be a "loyalty program" in the commonly accepted sense ("past loyalty rewarding program"), but a "probable future loyalty rewarding program" :rolleyes:.

From a different view point, if EK expects people to buy a higher ticket to have a better chance of upgrade, they are very wrong.

(I won't be surprised if this was the recommendation of another useless costly study from a big consultant firm)