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Emirates Cancelled Flight Questions- EU 261/400

Emirates Cancelled Flight Questions- EU 261/400

Old Jun 16, 14, 8:04 am
  #1  
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Question Emirates Cancelled Flight Questions- EU 261/400

Hi Everyone,
i've tried looking throughout this site for the specific information, but i'm not finding what i need. Please forgive me if this has been answered and kindly point me in the correct direction

To make a long story short:

We had a confirmed flight booked directly w/ Emirates for 20 May 2014
ARN-CMB via Dubai. On 7 May, I received an email notification that the flight had been cancelled and our itinerary changed. Our new flight was schedule for 21 May (an entire 24 hours later than the original). The only other option we were given was to take a flight on 19 May (a full 24 hours earlier than our original), this is what we eventually opted for.

At first glance, it appears we "qualify" for compensation per EU 261/400, but of course Emirates is denying the claim. Emirates contends, "The EU ruling regarding schedule changes or cancellations on bookings/flights is such that no compensation is offered if there is 2 weeks notice given, which in this case we have complied with."

SO, my question is----is the 2 week notification calendar days, or actual days? IF it is fact calendar days, then are they correct since it is 14 days? Or is this a ploy to get me to just go away? If you look at like, they notified me on the 7th and the original flight was for the 20th, then that is not 14 days. Anyone have any experiences similiar to this and been successful claiming EU 261/400?

I appreciate any help or assistance you can provide!
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Old Jun 16, 14, 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by buckeyelvr77 View Post
SO, my question is----is the 2 week notification calendar days, or actual days?
My question is----what is a "calendar day", and how does it differ from an "actual day"?

Based on what you have written above, you were notified on 7 May of a disruption to a flight on 20 May.

You must verify very carefully when EXACTLY the email was sent. Let's say your flight was for 13:05 on 20 May. If the email was sent before 13:05 on 6 May then you were notified more than 2 weeks in advance. If the email was sent at 13:05 on 6 May, or anytime thereafter, you did not receive 2 weeks' notice and compensation is due.
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Old Jun 16, 14, 12:46 pm
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Hi irishguy28

our flight was for originally scheduled for 1355 on 20 May. the email i received on 7 May is time stamped 0959.

Calendar days as follows, May 7=day 1, and so on, therefore May 20=day 14. Actual days as May 8 at 0959 as day 1, which gives us May 20=day 13. Maybe I'm crazy?!

thanks for your input!!
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Old Jun 16, 14, 1:15 pm
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Originally Posted by buckeyelvr77 View Post
Hi irishguy28

our flight was for originally scheduled for 1355 on 20 May. the email i received on 7 May is time stamped 0959.

Calendar days as follows, May 7=day 1, and so on, therefore May 20=day 14. Actual days as May 8 at 0959 as day 1, which gives us May 20=day 13. Maybe I'm crazy?!

thanks for your input!!
i make that 13 days 3 hours 56 minutes. assuming the time stamps are all from the same time zone
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Old Jun 16, 14, 1:26 pm
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It is so very technical. I believe it is the same time zone, since the denial letter i received from Emirates states their Stockholm Contact Centre Staff forwarded the email on 7 May, I live in Stockholm so it is definitely the same time zone :-)

This is Emirates response--- "The EU ruling regarding schedule changes or cancellations on bookings/flights is such that no compensation is offered if there is 2 weeks notice given, which in this case we have complied with. We can only apologise to you for any disruption to your travel plans and for the dissatisfaction with the new flight timings.

I'm completely new to this and am wondering if this is just a normal stalling tactic in the hopes that i will go away or are they actually right?
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Old Jun 16, 14, 2:10 pm
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Point out to them, succinctly, that the email was sent less than 14 days prior to the scheduled time of departure - specifically 1355 on 06 May.

Do not labour the point by counting days. Merely tell them that by waiting until 07 May to notify cancellation, they missed the 14-day deadline.

Then give your IBAN and BIC details and ask for immediate confirmation of the processing of the 600 due under Articles 5 and 7 of EC261/2004.
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Old Jun 16, 14, 2:24 pm
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EC 261/2004 specifies 14 days, not 2 weeks. Because minutes matter in this process, take a look at what time the email was sent, not what time it showed up in your inbox. You have only listed the receipt time.

While there may be a debate about sent vs. received, it's really important to have this down as it may make the difference between EUR 0 & 600.
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Old Jun 16, 14, 2:50 pm
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Since the regulation requires that the passenger be informed at least 2 weeks prior to departure, the sent time is not , I would say, the important time , but the received time is .

Until the mail is delivered, the passenger has not been informed

From the OP, it seems that it is just over 13 days notification and that send/receive times ( unless dramatically different ) are unlikely to make a difference anyway

This would seem to be easy to argue that 2 weeks notice was not provided and that the EUR600 compensation is due
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Old Jun 16, 14, 3:12 pm
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Thanks so much for the reassurances. I will continue to press ahead and hopefully I will get somewhere. Since there were three of us booked/confirmed, the possibility of 1800 eur is well worth the effort. I will continue to post any updates i get. Thanks again!!!
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Old Jun 16, 14, 3:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
. . . . the EUR600 compensation is due
Per paying passenger.

The OP uses "we" and "our" so presumably more than one person travelling.

Edit: Cross posted with #9

Last edited by ft101; Jun 16, 14 at 3:14 pm Reason: As above
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Old Jun 16, 14, 4:04 pm
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Originally Posted by buckeyelvr77 View Post
Thanks so much for the reassurances. I will continue to press ahead and hopefully I will get somewhere. Since there were three of us booked/confirmed, the possibility of 1800 eur is well worth the effort. I will continue to post any updates i get. Thanks again!!!
Rather than get into long discussions with EK

write back clearly pointing out that it was less than 14 days notice and that 2 weeks notice is require to be provided and that if payment is not received with 7 days that you will take court action to recover the money

Copy and paste the relevant part of the regulation and include that information too ; at least EK will then know you have done your research into entitlement

Assuming that the timings are correct, I don't think EK will have much of a defence
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Old Jun 16, 14, 8:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Rather than get into long discussions with EK

write back clearly pointing out that it was less than 14 days notice and that 2 weeks notice is require to be provided and that if payment is not received with 7 days that you will take court action to recover the money

Copy and paste the relevant part of the regulation and include that information too ; at least EK will then know you have done your research into entitlement

Assuming that the timings are correct, I don't think EK will have much of a defence
Ek denied my parents 261 claim despite two letters threatening court action. They gave 15k points and basically said sue us if you want but we will win.

Don't expect an outcome without actually having to take action in your local court.
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Old Jun 16, 14, 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by m3red View Post
Ek denied my parents 261 claim despite two letters threatening court action. They gave 15k points and basically said sue us if you want but we will win.

Don't expect an outcome without actually having to take action in your local court.
My suggestion was not to use court action as a threat, but to make it easy just to move on to the next phase which would be to actually take court action without any further correspondance with EK

In UK ( at least iirc ) , there is an expectation that the person claiming warn the other party that they intend to embark on legal action
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Old Jun 17, 14, 1:21 am
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I really hope Emirates will resolve this without court action (although, i'm realistic). i am not a permanent swedish resident and do not have ANY idea how to even begin the process of filing a claim in small claims court :-/
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Old Jun 17, 14, 1:53 am
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"Court action" just means filling out the common form used in all EU member states for the European Small Claims Procedure. Enquire locally for details on how Sweden implements the procedure. You pay a small fee and send it to the local court. You only have to fill out the bare facts - that EU261/2004 mandates payment if a cancellation is notified less than 14 days, which you can clearly prove by enclosing a printout of the notification email, and a printout of your e-ticket.

They will take it from there. No lawyer, no hearing necessary.

Alternately, you could get any of the multiple websites that offer to chase airlines for compensation on your behalf. I won't recommend any of them because I don't have any direct positive experience of any of them, but many operate on a no-win, no-fee basis.

However - given that your case is so clear cut, there is no way EK can defend not paying, so you should persist yourself rather than getting an agency to do this work for you . Be short and precise in your letter. Only if they refuse again, should you bring up the fact that you will resort to the small claims procedure.


http://europa.eu/legislation_summari.../l16028_en.htm
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