Official: Changes to Skywards from '10 - it was bound to happen..
Oct 15, 2009, 1:29 pm
#46
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: Skywards, Miles&More
Posts: 16
I wonder...
...why so many of you are complaining now! There were endless and pointless discussions about Platinum tiers and others being bored of their Gold card. Well, now I'm pretty sure this is the beginning of the end of Skywards and some of our overambitious posters.
What's clear to me from the information provided by Skywards:
1) Every(!) ticket is a saver ticket except a full flex ticket. BTW: I can't remember when having bought my last ticket without "eligibility restrictions" such as NOT VALID AFTER/NOT VALID BEFORE)...
2) Introduction of zones have never been to the advantage of customers. This is usually the same for earning as well as redemption schemes. Even if there might be a slight increase in zone earnings (!), keep in mind that your ticket will most probably devaluate your trip.
3) The fact that the new FF handbook has not being published and is being kept secret till 2010 is a really bad sign!
Summarizing:
EK seems to have a major "clean-up" in mind. Well, that's their right to do so. Of course, they might get rid of (many) Gold and Silver tiers this way. However, they should keep in mind that those people helped them make their business grow. For me this is quite disappointing and I doubt very much that I'm going to travel that frequently with EK in future.
marc-DE
What's clear to me from the information provided by Skywards:
1) Every(!) ticket is a saver ticket except a full flex ticket. BTW: I can't remember when having bought my last ticket without "eligibility restrictions" such as NOT VALID AFTER/NOT VALID BEFORE)...
2) Introduction of zones have never been to the advantage of customers. This is usually the same for earning as well as redemption schemes. Even if there might be a slight increase in zone earnings (!), keep in mind that your ticket will most probably devaluate your trip.
3) The fact that the new FF handbook has not being published and is being kept secret till 2010 is a really bad sign!
Summarizing:
EK seems to have a major "clean-up" in mind. Well, that's their right to do so. Of course, they might get rid of (many) Gold and Silver tiers this way. However, they should keep in mind that those people helped them make their business grow. For me this is quite disappointing and I doubt very much that I'm going to travel that frequently with EK in future.
marc-DE
Oct 15, 2009, 1:40 pm
#47
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,625
A 'Skywards Saver' fare is any Emirates fare with either:
(a) eligibility restrictions (such as students; seniors; companions; etc)
(b) a limited sales period ("must purchase by" date)
All fares sold by other airlines, partly flown on Emirates, also fall into this category.
A ticket which has a max stay restriction would not seem to fit within the description given
I would wait until the full details of the changes are available before deciding that the sky is falling in
Mileage earning information should be available within 2 weeks and not need to wait to jan to find out for example
Dave
Oct 15, 2009, 1:58 pm
#48
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: Skywards, Miles&More
Posts: 16
Not sharing any optimism
I would really like to share your (Dave) optimism. You might know that the details are usually to be read between the lines. In this particular case:
"(a) eligibility restrictions (such as students; seniors; companions; etc)"
etc allows many interpretations such as NOT VALID BEFORE / NOT VALID AFTER. Even more, if you take a closer look at the example given at:
http://www.skywards.com/MS_Default.aspx?pgID=9
Question 7
In my opinion the "etc" has to be interpreted in a worst case scenario like in hotel descriptions: A "sea-side" room is different from a "sea-view" room. The first one has to be directed to the sea only (regardless how far it is away and how many obstacles are in between), while the latter one really has to offer (at least) a (minimum direct) glimpse toward the sea...
marc-DE
"(a) eligibility restrictions (such as students; seniors; companions; etc)"
etc allows many interpretations such as NOT VALID BEFORE / NOT VALID AFTER. Even more, if you take a closer look at the example given at:
http://www.skywards.com/MS_Default.aspx?pgID=9
Question 7
In my opinion the "etc" has to be interpreted in a worst case scenario like in hotel descriptions: A "sea-side" room is different from a "sea-view" room. The first one has to be directed to the sea only (regardless how far it is away and how many obstacles are in between), while the latter one really has to offer (at least) a (minimum direct) glimpse toward the sea...
marc-DE
Oct 15, 2009, 2:13 pm
#49
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,625
I would really like to share your (Dave) optimism. You might know that the details are usually to be read between the lines. In this particular case:
"(a) eligibility restrictions (such as students; seniors; companions; etc)"
etc allows many interpretations such as NOT VALID BEFORE / NOT VALID AFTER. Even more, if you take a closer look at the example given at:
http://www.skywards.com/MS_Default.aspx?pgID=9
Question 7
In my opinion the "etc" has to be interpreted in a worst case scenario like in hotel descriptions: A "sea-side" room is different from a "sea-view" room. The first one has to be directed to the sea only (regardless how far it is away and how many obstacles are in between), while the latter one really has to offer (at least) a (minimum direct) glimpse toward the sea...
marc-DE
"(a) eligibility restrictions (such as students; seniors; companions; etc)"
etc allows many interpretations such as NOT VALID BEFORE / NOT VALID AFTER. Even more, if you take a closer look at the example given at:
http://www.skywards.com/MS_Default.aspx?pgID=9
Question 7
In my opinion the "etc" has to be interpreted in a worst case scenario like in hotel descriptions: A "sea-side" room is different from a "sea-view" room. The first one has to be directed to the sea only (regardless how far it is away and how many obstacles are in between), while the latter one really has to offer (at least) a (minimum direct) glimpse toward the sea...
marc-DE
However you read it, I cannot see a must travel by date as being an eligability restriction. Anyone can buy the ticket, the purchase is not restricted in any way
One interesting ( to me anyway ) effect of this change is that if someone buys a ticket from A-B-C and back to save money over a B-C return and doesn't fly the final leg of the return journey, then the person will not earn any miles for the return half of the trip. Interesting way to penalise throwaway ticketing
Dave
Oct 15, 2009, 2:27 pm
#50
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: Skywards, Miles&More
Posts: 16
One interesting ( to me anyway ) effect of this change is that if someone buys a ticket from A-B-C and back to save money over a B-C return and doesn't fly the final leg of the return journey, then the person will not earn any miles for the return half of the trip. Interesting way to penalise throwaway ticketing
marc-DE
Oct 15, 2009, 2:37 pm
#51
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,625
Even a Full Fare 1st ticket has a max stay of 1 year, so if a max use restriction was going to cause a fare to be a saver fare, then it means that all fares would be savers
Dave
Oct 15, 2009, 2:40 pm
#52
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC/PSP
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold
Posts: 4,106
I can't understand how EK can announce such huge changes without providing the details. Very unprofessional.
The only positive change I can see is the one-way awards. Which will be useless if we can't earn enough miles to redeem them!
The only positive change I can see is the one-way awards. Which will be useless if we can't earn enough miles to redeem them!
Oct 15, 2009, 4:20 pm
#53
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 73
...why so many of you are complaining now! There were endless and pointless discussions about Platinum tiers and others being bored of their Gold card. Well, now I'm pretty sure this is the beginning of the end of Skywards and some of our overambitious posters.
What's clear to me from the information provided by Skywards:
1) Every(!) ticket is a saver ticket except a full flex ticket. BTW: I can't remember when having bought my last ticket without "eligibility restrictions" such as NOT VALID AFTER/NOT VALID BEFORE)...
2) Introduction of zones have never been to the advantage of customers. This is usually the same for earning as well as redemption schemes. Even if there might be a slight increase in zone earnings (!), keep in mind that your ticket will most probably devaluate your trip.
3) The fact that the new FF handbook has not being published and is being kept secret till 2010 is a really bad sign!
Summarizing:
EK seems to have a major "clean-up" in mind. Well, that's their right to do so. Of course, they might get rid of (many) Gold and Silver tiers this way. However, they should keep in mind that those people helped them make their business grow. For me this is quite disappointing and I doubt very much that I'm going to travel that frequently with EK in future.
marc-DE
What's clear to me from the information provided by Skywards:
1) Every(!) ticket is a saver ticket except a full flex ticket. BTW: I can't remember when having bought my last ticket without "eligibility restrictions" such as NOT VALID AFTER/NOT VALID BEFORE)...
2) Introduction of zones have never been to the advantage of customers. This is usually the same for earning as well as redemption schemes. Even if there might be a slight increase in zone earnings (!), keep in mind that your ticket will most probably devaluate your trip.
3) The fact that the new FF handbook has not being published and is being kept secret till 2010 is a really bad sign!
Summarizing:
EK seems to have a major "clean-up" in mind. Well, that's their right to do so. Of course, they might get rid of (many) Gold and Silver tiers this way. However, they should keep in mind that those people helped them make their business grow. For me this is quite disappointing and I doubt very much that I'm going to travel that frequently with EK in future.
marc-DE
Oct 15, 2009, 4:28 pm
#54
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: EK Gold, HHonors VIP Silver
Posts: 2
I believe the earnings table will follow the same structure as redeeming rewards and be based on zones that are shown for the rewards currently.
I have compiled a table to show the 18 different zones I think EK will implement. These are based on miles required to redeem from dubai as origin point and also divided into regions. I also suspect the miles earnt from each zone will calculated as 10% of miles required to redeem. I have put next to each zone how much miles are earned. As you can see, certain destinations work out better while others do not.
Example 1: Birmingham to Dubai currently earns 3481 miles in economy. Under the new scheme it would earn 4000 miles. ^
Example 2: San Francisc to Dubai currently earns 8088 miles in economy. Under the new scheme it would earn only 7000 miles.
Standalone Home Zone: Dubai
Zone A - 1000 miles: Muscat, Doha, Bahrain
Zone B - 1500 miles: Riyadh, Tehran, Kuwait, Dammam, Jeddah, Sanaa
Zone C - 2500 miles: Peshawar, Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Delhi
Zone P - 7000 miles: Sao Paulo
Zone Q - 7000 miles: New York, Toronto, Houston
Zone R - 7000 miles:Los Angleles, San Francisco
I have compiled a table to show the 18 different zones I think EK will implement. These are based on miles required to redeem from dubai as origin point and also divided into regions. I also suspect the miles earnt from each zone will calculated as 10% of miles required to redeem. I have put next to each zone how much miles are earned. As you can see, certain destinations work out better while others do not.
Example 1: Birmingham to Dubai currently earns 3481 miles in economy. Under the new scheme it would earn 4000 miles. ^
Example 2: San Francisc to Dubai currently earns 8088 miles in economy. Under the new scheme it would earn only 7000 miles.
Standalone Home Zone: Dubai
Zone A - 1000 miles: Muscat, Doha, Bahrain
Zone B - 1500 miles: Riyadh, Tehran, Kuwait, Dammam, Jeddah, Sanaa
Zone C - 2500 miles: Peshawar, Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi, Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Delhi
Zone P - 7000 miles: Sao Paulo
Zone Q - 7000 miles: New York, Toronto, Houston
Zone R - 7000 miles:Los Angleles, San Francisco
hi..Where did you get this chart from ? If Ahmedabad comes under 2500 mile zone ...While I travel AMD - DXB it gives me 1098 miles basic on economy. So AMD - DXB gets more than double miles starting Jan ? Although there is hardly any differnce to JFK etc.
Oct 15, 2009, 5:35 pm
#56
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
However you read it, I cannot see a must travel by date as being an eligability restriction. Anyone can buy the ticket, the purchase is not restricted in any way
One interesting ( to me anyway ) effect of this change is that if someone buys a ticket from A-B-C and back to save money over a B-C return and doesn't fly the final leg of the return journey, then the person will not earn any miles for the return half of the trip. Interesting way to penalise throwaway ticketing
Dave
One interesting ( to me anyway ) effect of this change is that if someone buys a ticket from A-B-C and back to save money over a B-C return and doesn't fly the final leg of the return journey, then the person will not earn any miles for the return half of the trip. Interesting way to penalise throwaway ticketing
Dave
Oct 15, 2009, 8:48 pm
#57
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Calgary
Programs: BA Silver
Posts: 771
Seems confusing to me.
Without even trying to study it in detail my gut feeling is bad. I get the impression that, (when all the other details are out):-
-Its going to be harder to get to the various status levels
-Its going to be more difficult to earn miles with most fares unless you (or your company) buys the more expensive fares
-Its going to be more difficult to get upgrades
-Its going to be more difficult to get flight award redemptions
Perhaps the prosperous and halcyon days for Skywards rewards and upgrades are done.
Without even trying to study it in detail my gut feeling is bad. I get the impression that, (when all the other details are out):-
-Its going to be harder to get to the various status levels
-Its going to be more difficult to earn miles with most fares unless you (or your company) buys the more expensive fares
-Its going to be more difficult to get upgrades
-Its going to be more difficult to get flight award redemptions
Perhaps the prosperous and halcyon days for Skywards rewards and upgrades are done.
Oct 15, 2009, 9:25 pm
#58
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
Programs: BA Gold | SK Gold | A3 Gold
Posts: 4,553
The earning table doesn't make sense. Why would they separate Americas into different zones with the same mileage for each destination?
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
Oct 15, 2009, 10:15 pm
#59
Join Date: Aug 2009
Programs: Skywards Silver, Qantas FF Bronze, Miles and More, Velocity
Posts: 11
The earning table doesn't make sense. Why would they separate Americas into different zones with the same mileage for each destination?
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
Yes, you are probably right, zones means miles will not be exactly calculated after distance, but grouped together at round numbers. Which will probably be lower than what you would earn now. I am pessimistic here, because Emirates just want to make profit!
Oct 15, 2009, 10:48 pm
#60
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: EK Gold, HHonors VIP Silver
Posts: 2
The earning table doesn't make sense. Why would they separate Americas into different zones with the same mileage for each destination?
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
It is highly unlikely that mileage would be calculated based on actual distance between two places, as that wouldn't fit in with the creation of zones (which would be based on distance from Dubai)
It is disappointing to see no added benefits for Skywards members!
On the bright side, there's a 5% discount for booking upgrades online, which wasn't offered earlier.
It is 10% currently, they will be reducing it to 5%..not good.