Ditto

Are they? Have you tried boarding an IC train (VIRM4/VIRM6, the double decker ones or even the ICM3/4 with their narrow aisle) with luggage? The only ones that are luggage friendly are the sprinters, and even there usually there isn't enough space, I used to travel quite often from Hoofddorp (one stop before AMS) to Amsterdam Centraal and it's always a mess when all the tourists board at the airport.

The combined time & cost of train + uber is probably around the same as a taxi from ETM to the hotels in the city?

Yes it also serves the employees etc, it goes to Leidseplein but also have more stops where a lot of the hotels/AirBNBs are located, anyway that's not the point, it is marketed as a bus line for tourists yet it isn't any more luggage friendly than the normal buses.

BATLV

Even the IC trains are more luggage friendly - the idea is that one does not need to haul the luggage to your chair - you leave it at the entry area. And yes it is busy on the way to AMS because the vast majority of pax prefer the train - the bus is not as quick and convenient.

The bus is always cheaper than the train - because it is slower and less convenient to board and to ride, and because the train infrastructure that allows moving massive amounts of people is more expensive. And it is much faster on average - think of the rush hour.

The fact that they market 197 for tourists does not convince too many people to use it - because it is less convenient. It works better in other cities where there is no good rail alternative - such as in BCN. But in BCN the airport bus is designed for people travelling with luggage, unlike the 197.

BATLV

Pax numbers in ETM are 11% down compared to ETH ( hotel occupancy is 5% up for the same period).

https://www.themarker.com/news/aviat...1g7nsCVwABflOU

joshwex90

Really not surprising. Just not worth the hassle. ETM is much better than VDA. But the only way it can be an improvement over ETH would be with a rail link to the city. I just drove instead of flying because the timing for flying would've been the same likely and more expensive. Only a couple of hotels offer a shuttle to the airport, otherwise it's taxis if it's not busy, public bus if it is.

BATLV

A regular public bus, not adjusted to rapid boarding and alighting of pax with luggage, and without a dedicated bus lane.

And as for VDA - one doesn't have to try to be better than VDA

RedChili

I really don't understand why you need a special bus with rapid boarding and alighting. I took a regular Egged bus to VDA last year, and storing my bags in the baggage compartment and boarding the bus took me something like 37 seconds. With a special bus adjusted to rapid boarding, you can probably shave that down to 18 seconds, but who cares? Boarding a train at TLV actually takes longer, because it takes more time to get to the platform.

Now, having a train ETM-Eilat would be nice, but it would presumably only stop at a single station in the city, while with the bus, you can board and alight quickly at any bus stop anywhere in Eilat, so I'm not sure that the total travel time from ETM to the hotel would be quicker with a train.

Innocent Abroad

Trains, for one thing, don't get stuck in traffic....

RedChili

I don't know enough Hebrew to read the article from the Marker above, but I found another article with the same information at Haaretz: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...ilat-1.7280179

"The gleaming new Ramon airport that was supposed to give a further boost to Eilat tourism has so far been a disappointment. In April the number of passengers going through the facility was down 11% from the same time last year, when Eilat was being serviced by Uvda and the tiny municipal airport inside the city limits."

So, it seems that the 11% reduction is a comparison between ETH/VDA combined for April last year, and ETM for April this year. If so, there are a number of factors which could have caused this reduction:

1. In April this year, Easter was so late that all European airlines had already stopped flying to VDA. But in April last year, Easter was in the end of March/beginning of April, so the European airlines presumably had a boost in the passenger count on their final flight. There was no such boost this year.

2. Since the airport was brand new and there was uncertainty about when the move would take place, some airlines may have been reluctant to add flights around that date. Also, when potential passengers search for tickets on web sites like Kayak, flights may be omitted due to a confusion on whether you should search for VDA or ETM.

3. The Airports Authority claims that Arkia has shifted more planes to international flights this year, and that air fares have risen. I have no idea whether that is true, but it is conceivable, and it may be a part of the explanation.

As the article points out, the closure of SDV may be a bigger problem for domestic tourism in Eilat than the closure of ETH.

While that is true, it's important to remember that traffic is seldom a problem on route 90. The article above claims that traffic was a problem during Passover when "many people" missed their flights due to traffic jams. While that is true for peak travel times, it is also true for peak travel times everywhere else in the world. But people will still come because ... well, it's peak travel time.

What's more interesting is to look at the regular "bread and butter" days that are spread throughout the year.

And with trains, it's important to note that at many airports, they don't depart as often as the buses do. I find that I often choose a bus instead of a train simply because buses have more frequent departures. Also, at my local airport, ARN, quite frequently there's some accident or technical problem which leads to the closure of the railroad for several hours, so the reliability of trains is far below the reliability of buses.

Innocent Abroad

Well, I'm sure there are airports out there where the bus service is better than the train but for me this is a real rarity. Just a local comparison - the train to TLV from Jerusalem is SO MUCH better than the bus service.

BATLV

37 seconds times 40 pax is 24 minutes to turn around a bus. 24 minutes of your time. Now it is nothing if you just got off a flight from ARN, but it is something that will keep a certain amount of people within Israel off the plane and on their private cars ( more pollution, more congestion, etc...) I understand how a Swedish tourist may not care about it - but as someone who lives here - I do.

Good point that a properly adjusted bus takes that down to about 10 minutes - but who said it is the optimal solution? And even that does not exist.

ETM - Eilat train? Good. TLV - Eilat high-speed train? Better. But the damage is done. Money spent on ETM could have served the creation of proper public transport link.

RedChili

I haven't been on the TLV-Jerusalem train yet, but the Egged bus 5 connecting to 947 at a busy junction was a total disaster. I think it's 10 years or more since the last time I did that.

37 seconds times 40 pax = 24 minutes? Well, that calculation would be correct if every passenger would stand politely outside of the bus and wait until the previous passenger has stowed his baggage, boarded the bus, paid for the ticket, and taken his seat. But I've never seen that happen at any bus station anywhere in the world. As far as I can remember, while I was stowing my family's big bags in the compartment under the bus, there were others doing the same thing at the same time. And when I boarded the bus after 24 seconds, some passengers with small bags were already seated. All in all, it probably took about two minutes for everybody to stowe their big bags, board the bus, buy tickets, and get seated. I don't really see how these 2 minutes are going to keep people from flying.

Also, I have no idea how much ETM cost, but compared to the prime real estate which is vacated by ETH, I'm guessing that it wasn't a lot. A high speed train from Tel Aviv to Eilat would have been in a totally different league.

And, by the way, I'm not Swedish!

BATLV

In under no circumstance, an intercity bus can load luggage and pax in 2 minutes ( assuming full bus). Yes, since this is Israel and people will shove their bags in any way they like, it will probably take less than 24 minutes, but it is safe to assume 10-15 minutes from pull over to departure. That, plus congestion, plus the general inconvenience of the bus will and already does turn the domestic traffic down. Arkia is now offering tickets + transfer from ETM at 84 NIS, so they seem to realize they have a problem. Now, wait till SDV is shut down and you will see how domestic numbers plummet even further. ETM is an improvement only for international visitors, but is not a justified expenditure, since it, by itself, will not increase incoming tourism significantly, as Eilat does not offer a great level of service and attractions it will continue to cater primarily to Jewish VFR and low cost eastern European tourism. Now it could be that the land vacated by ETH costs more ( I am not even sure about that - I need to see the numbers, on top of that the economic value must include the taxes to be paid in future by developers and properties to be built at the ETH footprint), but it does not make it a sound investment of public funds.

Ditto

But isn't that pretty normal? If the busses are scheduled to depart after a flight land, and they get it right by having the correct number of busses ready?

Good, that's a logical thing to do, why does a domestic flight by an LCC need to cost more than a TLV-Europe flight?

I thought a part of the reason ETM was built was also to be used as a backup airport to TLV, also are you saying it is not going to increase int'l flight capacity from VDA?

Innocent Abroad

Jewish Visual Flight Rules

The backup airport to TLV is another (crazy) saga. There are two options one in the vicinity of Haifa and one in the Negev but no solution on the horizon.

BATLV

Show one place in Israel with intermodal schedule sync of any kind. There is no system. So that's a lot of "if"s in your sentence that are not backed by the reality and for total travel time of 3-4 hours every 10 minutes have an impact on how many people select their private car as the preferred method of transport.

It is not a question of cost. It is a question of price. Why would Arkia cut down prices? There is no price war among carriers on TLV/SDV - ETM route. So price reduction means indirect competition from private cars ( since buses have not changed anything in pricing and capacity).


A backup airport is a backup airport. VDA was and still is a valid backup. ETM has the capacity for the extra international travel, but I do not think that a new airport was a better solution as opposed to a new terminal in VDA.