Extorted by the wheelchair pusher at BKK
Apr 9, 2018, 8:19 pm
#31
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I like massages and go for "Korean-Chinese" foot massage storefronts that are popping up in metro cities. I had this experience in PHX & ORD. Went in, explained I really wanted reflexology on my feet, in ORD even showed them a reflexology chart to emphasize which points needed to be treated. Much head nodding, not a single word of English from the employee or manager.
After putzing around for an hour it was over, some obligatory massage. When I tipped just one dollar to show my displeasure, I was shown the sign that said Please tip $5 , for good service tip $10. She insisted a at least a fiver. I declined, much huff and puff. It seems thas is an industry wide ploy to extract more than the advertised price of $30 / hour. My guess is the worker may be paid a few bucks and supplement their income with the 5 or 10 by shaming, brow beating customers. Only in America ? !
Apr 9, 2018, 9:44 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 304
Apr 10, 2018, 9:25 am
#33
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,998
Agreed 100 %. I see tip jars all over. Surprised the heck out of me to see a jar at a "order here, pick up there" joints. They are simply taking advantage of CUSTOMER's "guilt quotient / succumbing to peer pressure", "will I look too cheap, will they prepare it like they should" .I shudder at the vision of tip jars at pharmacies, doctor's reception desks etc.....
And yes most Americans are guilty of over tipping, spoiling it for the rest.
And yes most Americans are guilty of over tipping, spoiling it for the rest.
As an aside, I was playing the piano for relaxation at MSP recently (a very nice Kawai grand with superb action) and someone came up and dropped a fiver on the music shelf and said, "great job". I was shocked and tried to protest and return it, but the guy refused and kept walking. It was the first tip of my life and it felt good to be appreciated.
Apr 11, 2018, 11:20 am
#34
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 628
A 'gift' that I didn't solicit and then get charged for, is neither a favour nor a gift.
This is easier to see if we turn it around. I would not be doing 'favour' to a vendor/supplier by giving him a gift card (or container load of them) in lieu of the cash we agreed at the outset would be paid for the service or product, even if I try to claim the value of the gift cards is superior to the cash. That is solely my opinion, it may not be his, the gift cards no matter how numerous may not meet his needs and pulling a fast one by changing the terms of payment after the fact is unfair. A contract or agreement is just that, it should not be altered unilaterally but only by mutual agreement. If he suggests "I normally only am required to take wheelchair users to x point" this kind of hint is acceptable, as I can then say, "that will do thanks" in which he must accept he isn't going to make an upsale to me, or alternatively if I counter "could you take me as far as the taxi rank, say for an extra $5" this is treating us both with respect, and also keeping the terms clear to us both.
BTW, I sought out a dictionary to confirm: favour - an act of kindness beyond what is due or usual. The operative thing in this case being that both parties must first establish what is agreed is due or usual.
Apr 11, 2018, 11:43 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
We are conflating two different things here: definition of a favour, and the pre-agreed value of a service.
A 'gift' that I didn't solicit and then get charged for, is neither a favour nor a gift.
This is easier to see if we turn it around. I would not be doing 'favour' to a vendor/supplier by giving him a gift card (or container load of them) in lieu of the cash we agreed at the outset would be paid for the service or product, even if I try to claim the value of the gift cards is superior to the cash. That is solely my opinion, it may not be his, the gift cards no matter how numerous may not meet his needs and pulling a fast one by changing the terms of payment after the fact is unfair. A contract or agreement is just that, it should not be altered unilaterally but only by mutual agreement. If he suggests "I normally only am required to take wheelchair users to x point" this kind of hint is acceptable, as I can then say, "that will do thanks" in which he must accept he isn't going to make an upsale to me, or alternatively if I counter "could you take me as far as the taxi rank, say for an extra $5" this is treating us both with respect, and also keeping the terms clear to us both.
BTW, I sought out a dictionary to confirm: favour - an act of kindness beyond what is due or usual. The operative thing in this case being that both parties must first establish what is agreed is due or usual.
A 'gift' that I didn't solicit and then get charged for, is neither a favour nor a gift.
This is easier to see if we turn it around. I would not be doing 'favour' to a vendor/supplier by giving him a gift card (or container load of them) in lieu of the cash we agreed at the outset would be paid for the service or product, even if I try to claim the value of the gift cards is superior to the cash. That is solely my opinion, it may not be his, the gift cards no matter how numerous may not meet his needs and pulling a fast one by changing the terms of payment after the fact is unfair. A contract or agreement is just that, it should not be altered unilaterally but only by mutual agreement. If he suggests "I normally only am required to take wheelchair users to x point" this kind of hint is acceptable, as I can then say, "that will do thanks" in which he must accept he isn't going to make an upsale to me, or alternatively if I counter "could you take me as far as the taxi rank, say for an extra $5" this is treating us both with respect, and also keeping the terms clear to us both.
BTW, I sought out a dictionary to confirm: favour - an act of kindness beyond what is due or usual. The operative thing in this case being that both parties must first establish what is agreed is due or usual.
Reminds me of last years trip to SCL ( four large suitcases, three flights total to het there). At baggage claim engaged a porter. Bag 2 came with one of the four wheels missing. He pointed out LATAM baggage office and asked me to go there and put in a claim. Wife stayed to get the three bags and both joined me at LATAM. Credit to LATAM, one look at the missing broken off wheel and within one minute he was out with a comparable sized suitcase. Hand shake and we parted. Porter eyed the busted bag and said he could use it. Paid him twice the agreed amount and gave him the old bag. Everyone happy !
Now to me that was a favour over and above the call of duty. Was happy to tip him well.
Apr 18, 2018, 5:26 am
#36
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,282
I don't want to point fingers at any one/group, but I guess we all know why such situations happened where everyone is just so used to getting tip for providing services when they are paid to do the job. This is all because of some cultures that are trying to push their normal way of behavior to the world. Every time I see this particular people tipping even when it's clear the service was not the best, I just shake my head because it just leads to the type of situation as the OP experienced, where it is expected and even at a certain price. Same protest I have when Uber introduced tipping as an option.
I recently visited California and these days it has become rather crazy where in the bill the suggested tip now is 18% (lowest), just last year it was still 15% (which is still absurd) and now it has been jacked up to 18%. Will we have to pay 50% in a few years time as tip?
I do refuse to pay anything more than 15% and that is only if the person serving me was really good, other than that, I still keep it to 10% and not more.
In my opinion, this whole tipping thing is just becoming absurd, it seems these days it is more of a politically correct form of bribe.
Cheers!
I recently visited California and these days it has become rather crazy where in the bill the suggested tip now is 18% (lowest), just last year it was still 15% (which is still absurd) and now it has been jacked up to 18%. Will we have to pay 50% in a few years time as tip?
I do refuse to pay anything more than 15% and that is only if the person serving me was really good, other than that, I still keep it to 10% and not more.
In my opinion, this whole tipping thing is just becoming absurd, it seems these days it is more of a politically correct form of bribe.
Cheers!
Apr 18, 2018, 6:09 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1
Disability travel
no problems except at Heathrow some years ago when I felt intimidated to give the wheelchair pusher a tip and in Sydney where I was shouted at as my hand luggage weighed 8kg...too heavy... was so traumatised I no longer travel
Apr 18, 2018, 6:44 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,088
I recently visited California and these days it has become rather crazy where in the bill the suggested tip now is 18% (lowest), just last year it was still 15% (which is still absurd) and now it has been jacked up to 18%. Will we have to pay 50% in a few years time as tip?
I do refuse to pay anything more than 15% and that is only if the person serving me was really good, other than that, I still keep it to 10% and not more.
In my opinion, this whole tipping thing is just becoming absurd, it seems these days it is more of a politically correct form of bribe.
Cheers!
Don’t get out much, do you? 18% has been the norm for a couple of decades. And if you had ever had to work for $2.25 an hour you wouldn’t be such a tipping snob. Don’t want to tip? Either stay home or convince the restaurant managers to pay their staff a living wage.
Apr 18, 2018, 7:37 am
#39
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 1,674
I'm shocked by the replies here. No matter which side of the debate you're on, you're called names and told you're wrong. But it is entertaining! 
Just to keep the debate going, the minimum wage in Samut Prakan and Bangkok is 325 baht per day.
Just to keep the debate going, the minimum wage in Samut Prakan and Bangkok is 325 baht per day.
Apr 18, 2018, 8:32 am
#40
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,088
And if that restaurant suddenly started paying their staff what they're worth, and raised their menu prices accordingly, you'd protest and take your business elsewhere.
It is not the fault of the server that the American system works this way. Change the system but don't punish the worker who works within it.
As for the comments throwing Canadians in with Americans re: tipping. Not even close. Canadians are second only to Brits on being cheapskates when it comes to tipping while they're traveling in the US. I hear from Brits all the time (and I work with literally hundreds every year) "We don't tip in the UK." Well, I guarantee you that the servers in the UK NEVER turn down a tip left by an American, so that's a little hypocritical. And virtually every check I get in the UK says "18% Service added." That's a FORCED tip that you have to pay regardless of the caliber of your service.
There are comments in this thread like "Why should we pay extra for someone who is just doing their job?" How many members of FT are there that get year end bonuses and stock options and all sorts of other cushy incentives and perks (Like flying Biz and FC all the time) FOR JUST DOING THEIR JOB? And I bet they're making a helluva lot more than $2.25 an hour.
Apr 18, 2018, 8:39 am
#41
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: MEL
Programs: Flying Blue ; Qatar Privilege Club, KrisFlyer
Posts: 68
Yeah, I'm not into tipping at all, but if I get spare change even when buying a takeaway coffee, I appreciate there being a tip jar, because that just means the staff will share the proceeds fairly (in theory), so I just drop the coin(s) in there. I never interpret a tip jar as enjoining me to tip.
Apr 18, 2018, 1:40 pm
#42
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 11
Salary
Today I used a wheelchair at international arrival and asked a few question while the polite man pushed me from the plane through immigration, picked up my luggage and wheeled me to the taxi stands. He informed me that he works 6 days a week on alternating shifts every 2 day and receives a monthly salary of 6,000 baht (about US$192) which is less than $8 a day. The interview was parts of a friendly conversation in Thai about his family, how he spent Thai New Years, other pleasantries. I asked the same questions last week with similar results. These guys are mostly from the northeast and send money home every month to support the family. I always give 100 baht at least but sometimes more at holiday time or for very attentive service. I have lived in Thailand more than 25 years and seen the cost of living significantly outpace salaries. 20 baht was generous 20 years ago but today it is certainly an insult. The response was likely a face-saving reaction to the perceived insult, especially if it was coins, handed with the left hand or in front of the taxi driver. Thai New Year is a time when they need extra money to send to their families as they can not take off time to go home. Thailand is changing and is no longer a cheap place to live or visit. These are my observations. If you don’t agree, fine, but please be polite. I have been afraid to write anything on FT before because of the negativity.
Apr 18, 2018, 8:39 pm
#43
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
Today I used a wheelchair at international arrival and asked a few question while the polite man pushed me from the plane through immigration, picked up my luggage and wheeled me to the taxi stands. He informed me that he works 6 days a week on alternating shifts every 2 day and receives a monthly salary of 6,000 baht (about US$192) which is less than $8 a day. The interview was parts of a friendly conversation in Thai about his family, how he spent Thai New Years, other pleasantries. I asked the same questions last week with similar results. These guys are mostly from the northeast and send money home every month to support the family. I always give 100 baht at least but sometimes more at holiday time or for very attentive service. I have lived in Thailand more than 25 years and seen the cost of living significantly outpace salaries. 20 baht was generous 20 years ago but today it is certainly an insult. The response was likely a face-saving reaction to the perceived insult, especially if it was coins, handed with the left hand or in front of the taxi driver. Thai New Year is a time when they need extra money to send to their families as they can not take off time to go home. Thailand is changing and is no longer a cheap place to live or visit. These are my observations. If you don’t agree, fine, but please be polite. I have been afraid to write anything on FT before because of the negativity.
Apr 19, 2018, 12:03 am
#44
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 948
It's just that those who are so anti-tipping have obviously never worked in the service industry and relied on tips to eke out a living. Ever had to face your boss on Friday and be told "Great job this week, but I think I'll only pay you half what I paid last week." Or...."I'm a little short so there's no money left for you this week." That's what it's like to work in the service industry! The rest of you know that you're going to get your full paycheck AND BENEFITS, even if you were a little off your game this week. A waitress can be the best you've ever seen, get your order perfect, make you smile and feel glad you chose this place for your special dinner, and still not be able to count on making a living because some people would rather have a fourth glass of wine than leave a decent tip.
And if that restaurant suddenly started paying their staff what they're worth, and raised their menu prices accordingly, you'd protest and take your business elsewhere.
It is not the fault of the server that the American system works this way. Change the system but don't punish the worker who works within it.
As for the comments throwing Canadians in with Americans re: tipping. Not even close. Canadians are second only to Brits on being cheapskates when it comes to tipping while they're traveling in the US. I hear from Brits all the time (and I work with literally hundreds every year) "We don't tip in the UK." Well, I guarantee you that the servers in the UK NEVER turn down a tip left by an American, so that's a little hypocritical. And virtually every check I get in the UK says "18% Service added." That's a FORCED tip that you have to pay regardless of the caliber of your service.
There are comments in this thread like "Why should we pay extra for someone who is just doing their job?" How many members of FT are there that get year end bonuses and stock options and all sorts of other cushy incentives and perks (Like flying Biz and FC all the time) FOR JUST DOING THEIR JOB? And I bet they're making a helluva lot more than $2.25 an hour.
And if that restaurant suddenly started paying their staff what they're worth, and raised their menu prices accordingly, you'd protest and take your business elsewhere.
It is not the fault of the server that the American system works this way. Change the system but don't punish the worker who works within it.
As for the comments throwing Canadians in with Americans re: tipping. Not even close. Canadians are second only to Brits on being cheapskates when it comes to tipping while they're traveling in the US. I hear from Brits all the time (and I work with literally hundreds every year) "We don't tip in the UK." Well, I guarantee you that the servers in the UK NEVER turn down a tip left by an American, so that's a little hypocritical. And virtually every check I get in the UK says "18% Service added." That's a FORCED tip that you have to pay regardless of the caliber of your service.
There are comments in this thread like "Why should we pay extra for someone who is just doing their job?" How many members of FT are there that get year end bonuses and stock options and all sorts of other cushy incentives and perks (Like flying Biz and FC all the time) FOR JUST DOING THEIR JOB? And I bet they're making a helluva lot more than $2.25 an hour.
But a discussion about tips is not between the customer and anyone, if you'd like benefits and a defined salary that is on you. Start a union. Work for it, or find a new job. I don't care if you feel you aren't paid enough. People getting stock options generally deserve them, you don't.
Apr 19, 2018, 2:17 pm
#45
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 11
The FlyerTalk email has a blurb on this thread that peaked my curiosity:
Extortion by the Wheelchair Pusher?
Walking was slow and painful for fairhsa, who needed a wheelchair to get around while very sick. After being assisted to go from the gate to the taxi stand in Bangkok, the wheelchair pusher demanded a tip and would not stop until the price was acceptable. Is this a form of extortion upon a person who is ill or disabled?
I was imagining the wheelchair attendant continuing to push the wheelchair past it's destination extorting money from the rider. (Picturing grandma screaming and whacking the dude with her bag trying to get him to stop.)
I think my version is far more entertaining.
As for the guy demanding a bigger tip: while I don't think $3(us) is unreasonable, the man was RAF and doesn't belong in the service industry. If there's a next time, tell him there will be an envelope left for him at the desk and hop in the cab asap. Then when you're home mail off a complaint to his manager (hence the envelope.)
Extortion by the Wheelchair Pusher?
Walking was slow and painful for fairhsa, who needed a wheelchair to get around while very sick. After being assisted to go from the gate to the taxi stand in Bangkok, the wheelchair pusher demanded a tip and would not stop until the price was acceptable. Is this a form of extortion upon a person who is ill or disabled?
I think my version is far more entertaining.
As for the guy demanding a bigger tip: while I don't think $3(us) is unreasonable, the man was RAF and doesn't belong in the service industry. If there's a next time, tell him there will be an envelope left for him at the desk and hop in the cab asap. Then when you're home mail off a complaint to his manager (hence the envelope.)
Last edited by note2001; Apr 19, 2018 at 2:41 pm