wheelchair in the closet
May 15, 2012, 8:59 am
#16
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DEN
Posts: 1,962
Thanks, Stez. It was United, and I filled out the post-flight survey with the info, but didn't make a separate complaint. Does complaining actually work?
May 15, 2012, 12:02 pm
#17
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Isle of Skye, Scotland
Programs: BA gold
Posts: 3,902
I have an axe to grind and I send in a complaint everytime I fly on a plane that has no subtitled movies. Responses range from nothing, $50 vouchers to actually explaining the situation and what they are going to do to improve on it.
It is the latter that I hope is what you get, I fear you may get the former. However, not sending in a complaint at all, you will get status quo.
I think it is worth a complaint in its own right, the cynic in me thinks surveys are probably collected and processed by disinterested third party companies who just want to easily assemble numbers rather than unique words.
If you do submit a complaint, I would love to know what the response is, if any, as probably will others.
The other option is to find a company representative (if any) on the United board of FT, and PM him/her to see if the rep can give you a direct channel?
May 16, 2012, 12:05 pm
#18
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2
scandinavia airlines
I travel with a mobility scooter (www.travelscoot.com) Recently I flew to Copenhagen from the US and they were very nice to me, even putting my mobility scooter up in business class. Granted it only weighs 34 pounds/16 kgs) but it was the first time. I fly 180,000 miles/year so have seen many airlines. In the beginning many were weird; in Japan they took my scooter completely apart down to the last screw and had a group meeting. They allowed me to use it but insisted I have someone with me in the airport. So I took them running alongside me at 6 mph for an hour and the next time they quit. I prefer the independence of using it over a wheelchair; I don't need to be pushed. Dean Hughson, Omaha Nebraska USA
May 16, 2012, 7:42 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: san francisco
Programs: No airline status whatsoever, Chase URs, HHonors Diamond, IHG Platinum
Posts: 567
My perplexion is about something much less important than a wheelchair but a similar situation - I sit in row 1/bulkhead generally so nobody is in my lap while I'm working on my computer. Everyone knows that all your stuff needs to be stowed in the overhead bins, nothing on the floor for taxi/takeoff, so when I open the overhead bin, it's full of blankets and a bag belonging to a FA. This is patently ridiculous ... the crew's been on the plane for 10 minutes, they can stow their bags anywhere ... why put your bag in the one place that is truly needed by the passengers in the first row? But it really underscores the scorn that some FAs have for their passengers. Some of them have terminal bad hair days and you just never know what you'll find as you board, just have to hope for the best.
May 17, 2012, 4:36 am
#20
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: lax
Posts: 3,888
My perplexion is about something much less important than a wheelchair but a similar situation - I sit in row 1/bulkhead generally so nobody is in my lap while I'm working on my computer. Everyone knows that all your stuff needs to be stowed in the overhead bins, nothing on the floor for taxi/takeoff, so when I open the overhead bin, it's full of blankets and a bag belonging to a FA. This is patently ridiculous ... the crew's been on the plane for 10 minutes, they can stow their bags anywhere ... why put your bag in the one place that is truly needed by the passengers in the first row? But it really underscores the scorn that some FAs have for their passengers. Some of them have terminal bad hair days and you just never know what you'll find as you board, just have to hope for the best.
May 17, 2012, 2:59 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,114
It is only through you, Katja, that I discovered the onboard closet. Since finding out about it, my experience has been along the lines of:
"Is this your own wheelchair?" "Yes, it is." "We'll prepare a tag for it and gate check it for you." "Actually, I would prefer to stow it in the in-board closet, if it's at all possible." Much conferring among GAs, then further conferring once I reach the plane (since my chair is small enough that it fits onboard the aircraft without a problem). "Where is the tag for this chair?" (Dramatic whisper) "She wants to stow it in the closet." "In the closet?!!" As I quietly smile and arrange myself in the first row of J or F, and the wheelchair is collapsed and taken to "the closet," (not knowing, poor little chair, that it's the 21st century, and she can be out, out, OUT of that cursed closet, but I digress . . . ). The whole experience can be disconcerting at best, and at worst, something along the lines of what you have described. Why some FAs react as poorly as the one on your flight did is entirely beyond me. I sometimes suspect that having a wheelchair passenger on board makes a small percentage of FAs nervous.
"Is this your own wheelchair?" "Yes, it is." "We'll prepare a tag for it and gate check it for you." "Actually, I would prefer to stow it in the in-board closet, if it's at all possible." Much conferring among GAs, then further conferring once I reach the plane (since my chair is small enough that it fits onboard the aircraft without a problem). "Where is the tag for this chair?" (Dramatic whisper) "She wants to stow it in the closet." "In the closet?!!" As I quietly smile and arrange myself in the first row of J or F, and the wheelchair is collapsed and taken to "the closet," (not knowing, poor little chair, that it's the 21st century, and she can be out, out, OUT of that cursed closet, but I digress . . . ). The whole experience can be disconcerting at best, and at worst, something along the lines of what you have described. Why some FAs react as poorly as the one on your flight did is entirely beyond me. I sometimes suspect that having a wheelchair passenger on board makes a small percentage of FAs nervous.
May 17, 2012, 7:32 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DEN
Posts: 1,962
I'd advise getting the tag, and then asking the flight attendant about the closet. The gate agents have no control over the closet.
And that way if for some legitimate reason (the other 3 manual wheelchair preboards, perhaps?) your chair cannot go in the closet, it's already tagged.
And that way if for some legitimate reason (the other 3 manual wheelchair preboards, perhaps?) your chair cannot go in the closet, it's already tagged.
May 19, 2012, 11:59 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Paris, Chicago, Rome, London, St John
Programs: DeltaPrivateJet, Ritz PP, Delta 4 million miler - Flying Colonel; AA Exec Plat (3 million + USAir)
Posts: 796
Several questions:
1. Most airlines require you to fill out a form that you have a wheelchair and they are only required to store one onboard.
2. They are not supposed to limit other passengers carry on for the wheelchair
- the closet is not where they are supposed to store it. It is for the crew's bags (do they don't take up overheads and for the coats of first class passengers. As noted above, they are required to have their manuals readily accessible)
3. All major planes (not express) carry a specific wheelchair on board if you need one.
4. You should really gate check yours.
5. The FA was "being nice" to allow you to stow it in the closet. She should have denied you - ESP if you did not fill out the proper forms.
6. The belief you are "entitled" is where you were wrong!
1. Most airlines require you to fill out a form that you have a wheelchair and they are only required to store one onboard.
2. They are not supposed to limit other passengers carry on for the wheelchair
- the closet is not where they are supposed to store it. It is for the crew's bags (do they don't take up overheads and for the coats of first class passengers. As noted above, they are required to have their manuals readily accessible)
3. All major planes (not express) carry a specific wheelchair on board if you need one.
4. You should really gate check yours.
5. The FA was "being nice" to allow you to stow it in the closet. She should have denied you - ESP if you did not fill out the proper forms.
6. The belief you are "entitled" is where you were wrong!
Last edited by BeatCal; May 19, 2012 at 12:12 pm
May 19, 2012, 12:10 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 270
§ 382.67 What is the requirement for priority space in the cabin to store passengers' wheelchairs?
(a) As a carrier, you must ensure that there is a priority space in the cabin of sufficient size to stow at least one typical adult-sized folding, collapsible, or break-down manual passenger wheelchair, the dimensions of which are within a space of 13 inches by 36 inches by 42 inches without having to remove the wheels or otherwise disassemble it. This requirement applies to any aircraft with 100 or more passenger seats; and
(b) This space must be other than the overhead compartments and under-seat spaces routinely used for passengers' carry-on items.
(c) As a foreign carrier, you must meet the requirement of paragraph (a) of this section for new aircraft ordered after May 13, 2009 or delivered after May 13, 2010. As a U.S. carrier, this requirement applies to you with respect to new aircraft you operate that were ordered after April 5, 1990, or which were delivered after April 5, 1992.
(a) As a carrier, you must ensure that there is a priority space in the cabin of sufficient size to stow at least one typical adult-sized folding, collapsible, or break-down manual passenger wheelchair, the dimensions of which are within a space of 13 inches by 36 inches by 42 inches without having to remove the wheels or otherwise disassemble it. This requirement applies to any aircraft with 100 or more passenger seats; and
(b) This space must be other than the overhead compartments and under-seat spaces routinely used for passengers' carry-on items.
(c) As a foreign carrier, you must meet the requirement of paragraph (a) of this section for new aircraft ordered after May 13, 2009 or delivered after May 13, 2010. As a U.S. carrier, this requirement applies to you with respect to new aircraft you operate that were ordered after April 5, 1990, or which were delivered after April 5, 1992.
§ 382.123 What are the requirements concerning priority cabin stowage for wheelchairs and other assistive devices?
(a) The following rules apply to the stowage of passengers' wheelchairs or other assistive devices in the priority stowage area provided for in §382.67 of this part:
(1) You must ensure that a passenger with a disability who uses a wheelchair and takes advantage of the opportunity to preboard the aircraft can stow his or her wheelchair in this area, with priority over other items brought onto the aircraft by other passengers or crew enplaning at the same airport, consistent with FAA, PHMSA, TSA, or applicable foreign government requirements concerning security, safety, and hazardous materials with respect to the stowage of carry-on items. You must move items that you or your personnel have placed in the priority stowage area ( e.g., crew luggage, an on-board wheelchair) to make room for the passenger's wheelchair, even if these items were stowed in the priority stowage area before the passenger seeking to stow a wheelchair boarded the aircraft ( e.g., the items were placed there on a previous leg of the flight).
(2) You must also ensure that a passenger with a disability who takes advantage of the opportunity to preboard the aircraft can stow other assistive devices in this area, with priority over other items (except wheelchairs) brought onto the aircraft by other passengers enplaning at the same airport consistent with FAA, PHMSA, TSA, or applicable foreign government requirements concerning security, safety, and hazardous materials with respect to the stowage of carry-on items.
(3) You must ensure that a passenger with a disability who does not take advantage of the opportunity to preboard is able to use the area to stow his or her wheelchair or other assistive device on a first-come, first-served basis along with all other passengers seeking to stow carry-on items in the area.
(b) If a wheelchair exceeds the space provided for in §382.67 of this part while fully assembled but will fit if wheels or other components can be removed without the use of tools, you must remove the applicable components and stow the wheelchair in the designated space. In this case, you must stow the removed components in areas provided for stowage of carry-on luggage.
(c) You must not use the seat-strapping method of carrying a wheelchair in any aircraft you order after May 13, 2009 or which are delivered after May 13, 2011. Any such aircraft must have the designated priority stowage space required by section 382.67, and you must permit passengers to use the space as provided in this section 382.123.
(a) The following rules apply to the stowage of passengers' wheelchairs or other assistive devices in the priority stowage area provided for in §382.67 of this part:
(1) You must ensure that a passenger with a disability who uses a wheelchair and takes advantage of the opportunity to preboard the aircraft can stow his or her wheelchair in this area, with priority over other items brought onto the aircraft by other passengers or crew enplaning at the same airport, consistent with FAA, PHMSA, TSA, or applicable foreign government requirements concerning security, safety, and hazardous materials with respect to the stowage of carry-on items. You must move items that you or your personnel have placed in the priority stowage area ( e.g., crew luggage, an on-board wheelchair) to make room for the passenger's wheelchair, even if these items were stowed in the priority stowage area before the passenger seeking to stow a wheelchair boarded the aircraft ( e.g., the items were placed there on a previous leg of the flight).
(2) You must also ensure that a passenger with a disability who takes advantage of the opportunity to preboard the aircraft can stow other assistive devices in this area, with priority over other items (except wheelchairs) brought onto the aircraft by other passengers enplaning at the same airport consistent with FAA, PHMSA, TSA, or applicable foreign government requirements concerning security, safety, and hazardous materials with respect to the stowage of carry-on items.
(3) You must ensure that a passenger with a disability who does not take advantage of the opportunity to preboard is able to use the area to stow his or her wheelchair or other assistive device on a first-come, first-served basis along with all other passengers seeking to stow carry-on items in the area.
(b) If a wheelchair exceeds the space provided for in §382.67 of this part while fully assembled but will fit if wheels or other components can be removed without the use of tools, you must remove the applicable components and stow the wheelchair in the designated space. In this case, you must stow the removed components in areas provided for stowage of carry-on luggage.
(c) You must not use the seat-strapping method of carrying a wheelchair in any aircraft you order after May 13, 2009 or which are delivered after May 13, 2011. Any such aircraft must have the designated priority stowage space required by section 382.67, and you must permit passengers to use the space as provided in this section 382.123.
May 19, 2012, 12:33 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DEN
Posts: 1,962
Several questions:
1. Most airlines require you to fill out a form that you have a wheelchair and they are only required to store one onboard.
2. They are not supposed to limit other passengers carry on for the wheelchair
- the closet is not where they are supposed to store it. It is for the crew's bags (do they don't take up overheads and for the coats of first class passengers. As noted above, they are required to have their manuals readily accessible)
3. All major planes (not express) carry a specific wheelchair on board if you need one.
4. You should really gate check yours.
5. The FA was "being nice" to allow you to stow it in the closet. She should have denied you - ESP if you did not fill out the proper forms.
6. The belief you are "entitled" is where you were wrong!
1. Most airlines require you to fill out a form that you have a wheelchair and they are only required to store one onboard.
2. They are not supposed to limit other passengers carry on for the wheelchair
- the closet is not where they are supposed to store it. It is for the crew's bags (do they don't take up overheads and for the coats of first class passengers. As noted above, they are required to have their manuals readily accessible)
3. All major planes (not express) carry a specific wheelchair on board if you need one.
4. You should really gate check yours.
5. The FA was "being nice" to allow you to stow it in the closet. She should have denied you - ESP if you did not fill out the proper forms.
6. The belief you are "entitled" is where you were wrong!
BeatCal, I really hope you are not an FA!
May 19, 2012, 12:47 pm
#26
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,114
OMG, Katja, you did not have the proper forms! Leave the wheelchair at the airport and prepare to crawl home! 
. What were you thinking, not filling out the proper forms to prove your wheelchair belonged somewhere on the plane and not back at the airport? Bad girl!
. What were you thinking, not filling out the proper forms to prove your wheelchair belonged somewhere on the plane and not back at the airport? Bad girl!
May 19, 2012, 12:50 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: DEN
Posts: 1,962
AND I didn't say "please" enough. I might as well just give up and stay home, you know, like people like me are supposed to.
P.S. The only airline that has ever made me fill out a form is Southwest. The agent who was doing it looks me up and down, asks "What kind of chair is it?"
"Manual," I say.
"No, what kind?"
"Well, it's a Top End Terminator Titanium Everyday."
She writes down "Manual".
May 19, 2012, 1:05 pm
#28
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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I usually get the quick once-over, "That your chair?" "Yes," "Is it collapsible?" "Yes, it is.". "You gonna need help to the gate?" "I sure would appreciate it, ma'am.". Arrive at gate, repeat.
You know what we need? Vaseline on the teeth and gums. Like beauty pageant contestants. Makes it easier to paste that smile on our faces. The smile it seems we need at all times while traveling. And don't forget to say please and thank you when someone throws around an expensive piece of equipment we need to move. Because everyone else would smile and say please and thank you if an irate fa were breaking their legs, of course.
You know what we need? Vaseline on the teeth and gums. Like beauty pageant contestants. Makes it easier to paste that smile on our faces. The smile it seems we need at all times while traveling. And don't forget to say please and thank you when someone throws around an expensive piece of equipment we need to move. Because everyone else would smile and say please and thank you if an irate fa were breaking their legs, of course.
May 19, 2012, 1:19 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: AAdvantage Executive Platinum, Delta Silver Medallion, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 14,114
Next time the ask you what type of wheelchair you have, you should say, "It's a Terminator. I'll be back." in your best Ahnuld, of course.
May 19, 2012, 8:55 pm
#30
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 55
I really don't mind when Southwest fills out the tag. It's a Quickie Q7, red frame with black upholstery, no damage, thanks for asking. I occasionally also have assistive device tags with information about my chair and travel (Name, PNR) when I fly United, but it's not a consistent policy (depends on the station). I honestly think this tag is an advantage if the chair gets lost or damaged.
I've been asked a few times to fill out the objectionable kind of form, but it's always on Asian airlines. On a recent flight in CX Business SFO-HKG, they had a two page form, can I walk on the plane, can I feed myself, do I need help with my medications, do I need oxygen or a stretcher, what do I do if I need to evacuate the plane? Good stuff, but not nearly as exciting as Asiana, whose phone agent insisted that I needed a letter from my physician stating that I'm cleared to fly. Lol!
I've been asked a few times to fill out the objectionable kind of form, but it's always on Asian airlines. On a recent flight in CX Business SFO-HKG, they had a two page form, can I walk on the plane, can I feed myself, do I need help with my medications, do I need oxygen or a stretcher, what do I do if I need to evacuate the plane? Good stuff, but not nearly as exciting as Asiana, whose phone agent insisted that I needed a letter from my physician stating that I'm cleared to fly. Lol!