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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   DiningBuzz (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz-371/)
-   -   Best & worst Bourbon? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/694797-best-worst-bourbon.html)

stimpy Jul 28, 2015 7:15 am
I was back at the Rosewood London this past weekend, in the amazing Scarfes bar, and this time I took a photo of the Bourbon menu. And yes they still have all these ready to pour.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...urbon-menu.jpg

FlyingDoctorwu Jul 28, 2015 7:57 am
Originally Posted by stimpy (Post 25184130)
I was back at the Rosewood London this past weekend, in the amazing Scarfes bar, and this time I took a photo of the Bourbon menu. And yes they still have all these ready to pour.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...urbon-menu.jpg
50 ml pours = 1.7 oz. Priced out in GBP. PVW 23 is 88 GBP= $137. 15 pours per bottle. $2055 per bottle... holy cow... I paid $229 retail for a bottle.. Guess they've gone for the higher than customary 3x markup.. even if they paid 229 GBP for the bottle they are still at >5x markup... but it's reasonable give that the PVW 23 can run 90-110 an ounce at a bar in the USA.....

I got really excited about the William Larue Weller at 15 GBP but wonder if it's instead the WL Weller. Two different product, two different price points. 15 GBP a pour would be great for the WIlliam Larue Weller, as it's in the same retail price category as the Eagle Rare 17, Sazerac 18 and Thomas Handy Rye. Thus, I'm skeptical that it's actually the William Larue Weller but if it is drink it up!

I think that the JW Marriott probably has the best bourbon list in London, if not all of Europe. They have a number of pre-prohibition whiskies as well. That all being said that's a fine list at the Rosewood and probably not terrible pricing giving how scarce some of the whiskies are.

FDW

thelark Jul 28, 2015 1:28 pm
I thought the same thing about the weller - that would have been my go-to on that list followed by Handy. That Whistle Pig pricing is absurd.

Have a bottle of 4R OBSF barrel strength on the way. 11yr 1mo old, 119 proof - was the PA "Fine wine and good spirits" barrel pick.

BamaVol Jul 28, 2015 3:24 pm
It's a nice list. But the prices seem high. I guess I'm not used to big city liquor prices. I'll have to stop by Lowes House of Bourbon locally and snap a pic of the price list to compare.

LondonElite Jul 28, 2015 3:29 pm
Guys, this is a drinks list from one of the more expensive London hotels. This sort of pricing is fairly common in luxury hotels across Europe. From memory, a pour of Bourbon Eagle Rare 10yo in the Grand Hyatt Berlin (an average priced hotel) was €18. Higher-end European hotels will charge up to €24 for that.

FlyingDoctorwu Jul 28, 2015 3:56 pm
Originally Posted by thelark (Post 25186177)
I thought the same thing about the weller - that would have been my go-to on that list followed by Handy. That Whistle Pig pricing is absurd.

Have a bottle of 4R OBSF barrel strength on the way. 11yr 1mo old, 119 proof - was the PA "Fine wine and good spirits" barrel pick.
I didn't even see the whistle pig.. wow 56 GBP for a pour... it does retail in the USA for $180-$200 (the new one, spirit of Mortimer)... though technically it's in the wrong section because it's a Canadian product...

Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 25186844)
It's a nice list. But the prices seem high. I guess I'm not used to big city liquor prices. I'll have to stop by Lowes House of Bourbon locally and snap a pic of the price list to compare.

It's always a trade off I think for some bars... I've talked to some owners about this.. if they price it according to normal conventions, then they sell through their product quickly... thus most have adapated a higher pricing strategy to limit sales and thus keep stock longer... in addition, it seems that at least in the USA some bars are having to seek out the secondary market for their supply which also drives up their costs/pricing...

Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 25186874)
Guys, this is a drinks list from one of the more expensive London hotels. This sort of pricing is fairly common in luxury hotels across Europe. From memory, a pour of Bourbon Eagle Rare 10yo in the Grand Hyatt Berlin (an average priced hotel) was €18. Higher-end European hotels will charge up to €24 for that.
you're absolutely right, it is good list with ok pricing... not great but not bad... my best Europe find was at the Park Hyatt in Vienna... they had the Four Roses SIngle BArrel on their list for I think 12 euros a pour, which is a reasonable price... However when the bottle came out, it was a bottle of the FOur Roses Single BArrel Limited Edition from 2012, which retailed in 2012 for about 4x the normal single barrel.. needless to say I finished all that they had
left


FDW

DaveBlaine Jul 29, 2015 7:07 am
I think I paid about 8 Pounds in London for what seemed like a thimble full of Laphroaig 10. I remember the bartender carefully measured it out so I didn't get "too much".

Still, it was a good drink though.

DaveBlaine Jul 29, 2015 7:09 am
Originally Posted by BamaVol (Post 25186844)
It's a nice list. But the prices seem high. I guess I'm not used to big city liquor prices. I'll have to stop by Lowes House of Bourbon locally and snap a pic of the price list to compare.
Not just Big City, USA. Bigger than that. London.

And yes, I would be interested to see domestic (USA) drink prices.

But we all know, it's cheaper to drink at home.

LondonElite Jul 29, 2015 7:39 am
Originally Posted by DaveBlaine (Post 25190018)
I think I paid about 8 Pounds in London for what seemed like a thimble full of Laphroaig 10. I remember the bartender carefully measured it out so I didn't get "too much".

Still, it was a good drink though.
Surprisingly (or perhaps not) for a nation of boozers and binge-drinkers, the UK is quite uptight about measures, which is governed by the Weights and Measures Act. Ironically, it has its origins in ensuring that the consumer didn't get short-changed.

The UK doesn't really have a free-pour concept in most places (sadly), though many bartenders do pour from the wrist.

thelark Aug 11, 2015 8:11 am
Elijah Craig barrel proof, 2015 release 1 on its way.

DaveBlaine Aug 11, 2015 8:20 am
Originally Posted by thelark (Post 25253775)
Elijah Craig barrel proof, 2015 release 1 on its way.
Excellent choice. I've noticed recent bottling's of what used be labeled as "Elijah Craig 12" are now simply Elijah Craig. Different label, same bottle. Is what's inside the same? That's what really matters.

FlyingDoctorwu Aug 11, 2015 9:49 am
Originally Posted by thelark (Post 25253775)
Elijah Craig barrel proof, 2015 release 1 on its way.
Excellent choice.. the Elijah Craig Barrel proof is fantastic.. I like release 1 and 3 the best (134.2 proof, 133.2 proof respectively)... great color and love all the caramel... Here's a source for the different releases

Originally Posted by DaveBlaine (Post 25253818)
Excellent choice. I've noticed recent bottling's of what used be labeled as "Elijah Craig 12" are now simply Elijah Craig. Different label, same bottle. Is what's inside the same? That's what really matters.
They've moved the age statement to the back label. It's still a 12 year old small batch bourbon. According to Heaven Hill it's to make the label on the regular small batch match the barrel proof (age statement on the back). According to some conspiracy theorists; the move to the back is a precursor to dropping the age statement. It's been a recent trend to drop age statements (Ancient Ancient Age, Old Charter, Old Weller Antique to name a couple)... who knows, however, Heaven Hill did just recently add an age statement to one of their products, Bernheim Wheat...

FDW

MaxBuck Aug 11, 2015 10:48 am
Originally Posted by FlyingDoctorwu (Post 25187067)
I didn't even see the whistle pig.. wow 56 GBP for a pour... it does retail in the USA for $180-$200 (the new one, spirit of Mortimer)... though technically it's in the wrong section because it's a Canadian product...
WhistlePig is located in Vermont, which is not part of Canada. But it's rye whisky, which is not bourbon, by definition.

Bourbon must be distilled in the US, and must be minimum 51% corn.

DaveBlaine Aug 11, 2015 11:05 am
Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 25254628)
WhistlePig is located in Vermont, which is not part of Canada.
They touch. Isn't that close enough? ;)

rob_flies_ua Aug 11, 2015 11:29 am
Originally Posted by FlyingDoctorwu (Post 25187067)
I didn't even see the whistle pig.. wow 56 GBP for a pour... it does retail in the USA for $180-$200 (the new one, spirit of Mortimer)... though technically it's in the wrong section because it's a Canadian product...




It's always a trade off I think for some bars... I've talked to some owners about this.. if they price it according to normal conventions, then they sell through their product quickly... thus most have adapated a higher pricing strategy to limit sales and thus keep stock longer... in addition, it seems that at least in the USA some bars are having to seek out the secondary market for their supply which also drives up their costs/pricing...



you're absolutely right, it is good list with ok pricing... not great but not bad... my best Europe find was at the Park Hyatt in Vienna... they had the Four Roses SIngle BArrel on their list for I think 12 euros a pour, which is a reasonable price... However when the bottle came out, it was a bottle of the FOur Roses Single BArrel Limited Edition from 2012, which retailed in 2012 for about 4x the normal single barrel.. needless to say I finished all that they had
left


FDW
Originally Posted by MaxBuck (Post 25254628)
WhistlePig is located in Vermont, which is not part of Canada. But it's rye whisky, which is not bourbon, by definition.

Bourbon must be distilled in the US, and must be minimum 51% corn.
Originally Posted by DaveBlaine (Post 25254725)
They touch. Isn't that close enough? ;)
Possibly because whistlepig used to be entirely sourced from Canadian whiskey, and as of a year ago was still at least partially sourced from Canada:
http://whiskyadvocate.com/2014/03/19...gs-raj-bhatka/


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