tony2x

I just completed a very pleasant vacation and flew NW (sorry DL ) from SFO-NRT-HKG-NRT-HKG-NRT-SFO. The weather was pretty bad in HKG for the first few days of my hols and that weather seemed to follow me to NRT as I arrived at NRT to get NW7 to NRT the heavens opened once again.

I boarded early, took my exit row seat in Y and noticed there was a DL non-rev pax hanging around talking to the FAs in the galley. He seemed to be on first name terms with all the crew so by the powers of deduction I presumed he was off duty crew. He wasn't in uniform but he had a DELTA lanyard around his neck with what I assumed once again was his ID pass in his pocket.

The flight was somewhat full and I was sat next to a FedEx freight rat who was deadheading to HKG. As we pushed back the Captain came over the PA and said that they were expecting moderate to heavy turbulence on the climb and specifically asked that we all observe the fasten seat-belt signs and requested the cabin crew to delay the meal service until we were at cruise altitude. Fair enough I thought.

The climb was as predicted a bumpfest with the plane being tossed around like crazy. The 10k chime came and the purser announced that we were ok to use electronic devices but reiterated that we should remain seated until the Captain turned off the seat-belt sign. The purser was barely mid announcement when the non-rev jumped up to use the bathroom. This act had the unfortunate knock-on effect of signalling to the entire biz cabin that it was ok to use the bathroom and people started queuing outside the toilet door.

The bumpfest continued and a couple of the waiting pax were knocked clean off their feet by the turbulence. Still not a peep from the FAs although the excellent Japanese FA who was sat in the jumpseat ahead of me did turn around and told everyone to sit down but was largely ignored.

Personally I took issue with this and asked to speak to the Purser, I explained what I'd seen happened and her response was to ask me if I wanted to explain to the passenger why I was upset and didn't see it as her place to intervene. I went onto explain that as an identifiable airline employee that it was their role to lead by example, she then said she wasn't aware of any non-rev passengers and mysteriously our naughty non-revver had now removed his Delta lanyard. The purser made me feel that I was causing trouble so I let it go.

Returning from HKG to NRT a few days later on NW8 I found myself in the boarding queue with the very same non-rev, complete with his Delta lanyard. This time we didn't have the same weather conditions on the climb but again, true to form before the seat-belt sign had been extinguished he moved from his seat in coach to use the biz bathroom mid-climb. Again, no one tried to stop him and this signalled to the people in coach that it was fine to use the biz bathroom that prompted a further announcement clarifying the use of bathrooms. I didn't mention anything to the crew this time. As I deplaned we were held in a queue for swine-flu checks and we were told to stand in single file. Mr Delta Non-Rev was behind me looking agitated at this requirement, I had my bag in his way (ok, quite intentionally) and he waved his pass at me and asked if he could get past.

Me: "Are you flight crew?"
Him: "Yes."
Me: "Are you working today?"
Him: "No. I am on vacation."
Me: "Then you have to wait in line with the rest of us thank you, only uniformed crew members are permitted to jump the line"
Him: *evil stare*

Swine flu checks over with I waited with the other transit pax to clear security and Mr Non-Rev disappeared from the line only to appear a minute or so later in full uniform and waltz past me. He even had the cheek to give me a smile and a wave as he wandered past.

As a former beneficiary of airline employee benefits I know that bending the rules is commonplace and I would not have been upset at him putting his uniform on to skip the line had he not have behaved appallingly on the two flights I'd been on. My main beef was him ignoring the Captain's *specific* instructions on that first flight and just that eliminated any goodwill I might have extended to him.

Now I've got my rant over with I wanted to ask, do you think this is worthy of a letter to DL HQ? I am not seeking, nor expecting compensation and I realise my actions may result in this crew member being disciplined or even terminated. Would you leave this go unreported and just chalk it up to experience? I've ignored the seat-belt signs before but never when the Captain specifically told us an the crew to stay seated. I have enough information about the pax to be sure that he is identifiable (flight, seat number, even a name after he waved his pass in my face). I have been on a flight where we hit severe turbulence and pax have hit the ceiling causing some pretty bad looking injuries so again I have a low tolerance to people breaking that rule, even more so when the are a non-rev that should be leading by example.

AndyTLe

Absolutely, for so many reasons. As in so many cases, even though you're off-duty, you're still a representative of your organization/ company/ school/ team. Your behavior reflects upon not only you, but others as well. Imagine, if you were someone else (not as knowledgable), what would your impression be?

Davescj

I think it is worth a letter to DL. I would not rant, but simply state what happened. As you point out, it makes DL look bad, and gives the impression that the safety requirements are not requirements.

Dave

Burj

If it concerned you enough to post about it, I don't see why you would hesitate to contact Delta HQ...

My direct observation is that many of Delta's employees have a problem "playing by the rules" and it might be part of the corporate culture...

If nothing else this person's actions led to SAFETY issues and that alone merrits contacting HQ.

raehl311

Here's my question...

... is the fasten seatbelt light a REQUIREMENT, or just a really strong advisement?

I've been on quite a few flights where the light has been illuminated for most of the flight with little turbulence and I've come to regard it as an advisement - "We strongly recommend that you stay in your seat with your seatbelt fastened" but don't consider it a big deal if, in my adult judgment, using the restroom is more important to me than risking breaking my neck. (I wouldn't jump out of my seat to do it at 10k though either.) And in cases where I have, based on my adult judgment, elected to use the restroom while the seatbelt light was illuminated, I have not once had anyone raise any protest.

That opposed to, say, no-smoking signs, which are definitely not suggestions.

majorwibi

Please send the letter. Make sure you include as much detail as you can because NRSA (even flight crew as NRSA) need to still play by the same rules as the other pax.

tony2x

My instinct is definitely to write a letter about it but I wanted to get my rant over and done with on here so I can focus on the facts in a letter.

I'm glad you all so far agree with my instinct and a letter will be heading to Delta HQ. I'll keep this thread posted of any response I may receive. I actually chatted to the FA on my NRT-SFO flight about this and she was shocked at his behaviour, she said that had she witnessed it she would have reported him as disobeying a direct instruction from the Captain is considered very serious. She seemed genuinely upset that I had witnessed this as she said getting pax to obey the seat-belt signs is a daily battle and it is events like this that undermine her #1 responsibility which is the safety of her passengers. A positive mention of her is going into my letter.

tony2x

I believe it is a requirement under 10k and I too usually view it as somewhat 'advisory'. I've certainly ignored it when I have *really* needed the bathroom. However, in this case the Captain specifically told us to stay in our seats and I view any instruction from the flight deck as mandatory and not advisory.

DLBeno

I don't see how a letter is going to do anything.

You are going to allege that some random NRSA (out of the possible 75,000 DL employees) was not doing as you wanted (expected) him to?

I don't think you have much to go on and to be honest with you--as the saying goes-- "it is what it is."

Move on with your life. There are more important things to worry about--

AndyTLe

It seems that we've all violated FAA regs

http://www.risingup.com/fars/info/part121-317-FAR.shtml

AndyTLe

At what point then should a DL employee be reported for disregarding an order? It sets a bad example and impression and is detrimental to what little positive image remains of Delta. As many pilots and FAs say on board "We know you have a choice in air carrier..." If you and other DL employees all take the "it is what it is" approach, so be it. Just don't be shocked when DL heads back to bankruptcy as a different "choice" in air carrier is made. Kind of hard to non-rev on an airline that no longer exists.

tony2x

It isn't random, I have the flight number, his seat assignment and his name. With that information I think it would be pretty targeted. Again, to be clear I wouldn't usually get so bent out of shape about this were it not for the Captain's specific instruction to stay sat down, if the on-duty FAs can obey that then why on earth would a NRSA pax not?

More important things yes, but if his actions caused safety to be compromised then why wouldn't it be worth the price of a stamp. People have been killed because of heavy turbulence and on this flight it was severe enough to knock 2 pax clean off their feet.

DLBeno

I am not doubting the severity of an alleged transgression against FAA rules...

What I am saying is that unless someone else corroborates this alleged rule violation, it is merely a situation of his word against yours. That was what I was alluding to in terms of the fact that, in the end, what are you hoping to gain out of this besides personal satisfaction?

And to AndyTLe: your hyperbole doesn't work. There are 74,999 DL employees (ostensibly) that do follow the rules.

AndyTLe

So our issues/complaints sent to DL must have third party confirmation? What happend to "the customer is always right?" It is similar to the pilots/FA crews that still try to enforce the DCA "30-minute" rule that no longer exists. Let's just make the rules up as you go?

Without input from the customers, how else is DL going to find out about good or bad interactions? Obviously the purser wasn't much help (so self policing can only go so far). When a DL employee goes above and beyond, we're able to say so in the form of an e-mail or the certificates. But when a DL employee fails to comply with FAA regulations and at the very minimum was inconsiderate, we should just accept it as "it is what it is?"

tony2x

I agree that proof is the hardest part of this but it should still not deter me from writing the letter. If nothing comes of it then so be it, but if the off-duty FA gets written up and thinks twice before setting a bad example then it did the job. It isn't about my personal satisfaction, that was amply satiated by me posting this.

It is about ensuring safety on-board and ensuring that airline employees don't forget that off duty or on, they are ambassadors for their company and that should be reflected in their behaviour.