NW/DL begin new route MEM-DAL (Love Field)
Apr 24, 2009, 6:38 am
#16
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Meh- more than likey this is vintage Delta whining strategy. It is a message directed at Southwest, "we don't like your entry into formerly NW captive markets, so take this".
Classic Delta strategy, throw some CRJs that they have sitting around at a LCC competitor to bleed yields and send a message-pathetic, when you consider the scale of Delta losses.
Classic Delta strategy, throw some CRJs that they have sitting around at a LCC competitor to bleed yields and send a message-pathetic, when you consider the scale of Delta losses.
Apr 24, 2009, 6:47 am
#17
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It would be a great plan, except that Southwest serves only one city in Tennessee and it ain't MEM.
David
Apr 24, 2009, 6:49 am
#18
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The original DAL master plan called for 32 gates. There would have been 26 in the main terminal and the other 6 over at the old Legend Terminal. I believe the City of Dallas owned the land it was built on, but the actual terminal had been built and paid for by Legend. After Legend's demise it was sold. The new landlord was called Love Terminal Partners.
The terminal sat basically unused for the next several years. Then in November, 2004 WN came out in opposition to the Wright Amendment and that whole 2-year battle began.
In March 2006, the cities of Dallas and Fort Worth, AA, WN, and DFW were still trying to come up with a compromise.
One of the issues the Dallas City Council had to tackle was the number of gates permitted in a post-Wright World. The common goal was to be able to control the growth at the airport, while still allowing for fair competition between airlines.
One possibility included reducing the number of gates at Dallas Love Field as a way to limit traffic
Since the six gates at the Legend terminal weren't considered usable by larger aircraft, Mayor Miller favored reducing the maximum number of gates at Love Field to 26 from 32 and wanted to have Legend's former terminal demolished.
Alan Naul, asset manager for Love Terminal Partners, said he'd been getting a lot of interest from airlines interested in serving Love Field since last fall. (of 2005)
In early June, reports emerged that the Love Terminal Partners, which owned the Legend terminal, said they were close to signing a deal to sell the facility to a publicly traded airline.
That airline was Pinnacle.
When Mayor Miller found out, she wanted the Dallas City Council to study options for acquiring the former Legend terminal, including seizing the property through eminent domain.
In the end, Pinnacle Airways called off the deal.
At the time it was assumed that NW would begin with flights to MEM but service to other hubs would have come later. Otherwise, Pinnacle wouldn't have wanted to buy the entire six gate terminal. And I believe NW and CO were codeshare nback then, so CO might have moved over there, too, but we'll never know for sure since the deal fell through.
In the end, as part of the Wright Amendment Compromise, It was agreed that the Legend Terminal would indeed be torn down. with only 20 gates allowed in the main terminal, instead of 26. WN had 15, CO had 2 and AA had 3. There were no other gates to be had.
Northwest was not happy at the time. See
JetBlue, Northwest oppose Texas airport deal
Fast forward to this year. AA announces it will leave Love Field, but vows to return in 2014.
I think they have a long term lease through 2028, so they have to pay the rent whether or not they use them. Plus, if another airline wants to serve DAL and there is gate space available, I don't think AA could refuse if they weren't using them themselves
So now there are gates available and DL/NW is now doing at DAL what NW wanted to do three years ago. (I believe Delta is subleasing these gates from AA.)
I personally don't feel this is some out-of-the-blue knee-jerk reaction to WN's entry into MSP.
Last edited by LoneStarMike; Apr 24, 2009 at 6:54 am Reason: spelling; more info
Apr 24, 2009, 7:01 am
#19
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So if I'm reading this correctly:
--DL will use currently unused gates that are leased by AA for this service.
--In 2014, AA wants to return to DAL.
--So in 2014, DL will be SOL.
Sound right?
--DL will use currently unused gates that are leased by AA for this service.
--In 2014, AA wants to return to DAL.
--So in 2014, DL will be SOL.
Sound right?
Apr 24, 2009, 7:35 am
#20
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Location: Austin, TX USA
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Back in August of 1998 not knowing which way the courts would rule on Legend's right to serve DAL with DC9's with enough seats taken out to meet the 56 seat or less limit, and wanting to acquire some gates at Love Field, AA began service to AUS with 14 daily nonstops in addition to their existing 11 from DFW. AA's lease on Braniff's old gates in the East Concourse called for the space to be used for offices only, so AA was forced to share CO's two gates.
In mid-June, 1999 the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram reported:
Continental Express, citing increased demand among business travelers, has partially squeezed American Airlines from the gates the carriers share at Dallas Love Field.
Beginning July 9, Continental will add two daily Love-to- Houston round-trip flights, forcing American to shift three Love-to-Austin routes to Dallas/Fort Worth Airport beginning July 2, scrapping one daily flight in the process.
Continental Express can elbow American for space at Love Field because it has preferential use of gates 41 and 42, the gates shared by the two airlines but controlled by Continental.
"They are our gates and, as we need them for additional flights, we need to use them more often," said Michele King, a spokeswoman for Continental Express in Houston. "We have increased the flights due to demand by our customers."
American described the move as "taking the gates away from us, if you will, during some of the prime times of the day," spokesman Tim Smith said.
Beginning July 9, Continental will add two daily Love-to- Houston round-trip flights, forcing American to shift three Love-to-Austin routes to Dallas/Fort Worth Airport beginning July 2, scrapping one daily flight in the process.
Continental Express can elbow American for space at Love Field because it has preferential use of gates 41 and 42, the gates shared by the two airlines but controlled by Continental.
"They are our gates and, as we need them for additional flights, we need to use them more often," said Michele King, a spokeswoman for Continental Express in Houston. "We have increased the flights due to demand by our customers."
American described the move as "taking the gates away from us, if you will, during some of the prime times of the day," spokesman Tim Smith said.
Last edited by LoneStarMike; Apr 24, 2009 at 7:37 am Reason: clarification of what court ruling was about
Apr 24, 2009, 9:50 am
#21
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If AA has three gates at the new terminal it's probably not out of the question that they would be willing to share one of them with DL/NW once they return or even rent one of them outright even after they return. I'm not sure AA would even need three gates, what service besides DAL-ORD have they offered recently? I would thank that AA didn't necessarilly take three gates because they believed they needed that many, rather they may have just took as many as they could to limit how many WN got.
Apr 24, 2009, 10:40 am
#22
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Why to Love field? Why not just expand service to DFW?
Apr 24, 2009, 10:46 am
#24
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There's a school of thought (theory? theorem? belief?) that there are passengers living in Dallas who would much rather fly from DAL than DFW. Read up on the Wright Amendment and the controversy over its repeal and you may come to understand the appeal of DAL. For additional education, read up on the rise and fall of Legend Air, appropriately killed off by AA.
Apr 24, 2009, 11:22 am
#25
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So...when Wright is repealed in 2014...how large of a jet can DAL support?
737? A320? 757? Widebody?
737? A320? 757? Widebody?
Apr 24, 2009, 11:27 am
#26
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With runways longer than those at LGA, DAL could certainly support 767s (as does LGA), but there may be aircraft size or weight restrictions in the compromise agreement.
Apr 24, 2009, 11:56 am
#27
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I took a look at the agreement and didn't see anything mentioned about aircraft size or weight restrictions.
BTW, here's a link to the master plan showing the schematics for the completed project as well as what will be done in each phase.
AA's three gates (shown on page 6) are at the far east end of the terminal, past the two gates currently being used by CO.
Sep 19, 2009, 5:17 pm
#28
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DL/NW at DAL Love Field Update
Flew DAL-MEM RT for the first time last week. While I don't love the CRJ, the Pinacle crews were actually really good, and for now there's no other option for DAL.
The walk to gate 31 at DAL is kinda crazy...didn't mind it at all personally, but it just seems crazy to walk that far for the size of the airport. The jetbridge has the AA eagle on the inside, and the old AA gate is pushed off to the side.
On a Sunday afternoon, couldn't get a bottle of water at the CO gates or by gate 31. On arrival, bags took forever, and no respect for the priority tags
Learned a few things from chatting with an FA who flies the route frequently. Obviously all unsubstantiated, but here's what she shared.
1. The route had been in the works for several years. It was initiated by NWA but they were blocked from entering (not sure by who).
2. The route has been doing fairly well with about 35/50 on the flights. The 6AM DAL-MEM is less full.
FWIW I took a connection in MEM to fly out of DAL over a direct flight from DFW for the same price. On future trips, this hasn't been the case, only because I won't take the connection in the winter. It would be tough to pay more to fly from love even though its only 10min away (v 30-40). For long trips though, it's worth it, I think.
The walk to gate 31 at DAL is kinda crazy...didn't mind it at all personally, but it just seems crazy to walk that far for the size of the airport. The jetbridge has the AA eagle on the inside, and the old AA gate is pushed off to the side.
On a Sunday afternoon, couldn't get a bottle of water at the CO gates or by gate 31. On arrival, bags took forever, and no respect for the priority tags
Learned a few things from chatting with an FA who flies the route frequently. Obviously all unsubstantiated, but here's what she shared.
1. The route had been in the works for several years. It was initiated by NWA but they were blocked from entering (not sure by who).
2. The route has been doing fairly well with about 35/50 on the flights. The 6AM DAL-MEM is less full.
FWIW I took a connection in MEM to fly out of DAL over a direct flight from DFW for the same price. On future trips, this hasn't been the case, only because I won't take the connection in the winter. It would be tough to pay more to fly from love even though its only 10min away (v 30-40). For long trips though, it's worth it, I think.