rcs85551

Just FYI, in case you did not read the UA forum on a constant basis, Economy Plus access rules have changed.

Full fare travellers as well as *G/*S elite members from other airlines do not get to sit in Economy Plus on UA anymore.

It's restricted now to UA's own elites (or those forking over the Economy Plus access fee).

gpan

Perhaps the lady or her hubby makes that much in a hour - not everyone is a plebe like us. And the full fare ticket does take a (small) bite out of the actual cost of operating the flight. (From my recollection, you'd need to sell all of the front at close to full fare (or contract rates) to even cover fuel + overhead cost of the trip, that is unless you manage to fill the back with rev tickets.)

El Boocho

Why does every DL example you have include flights to Germany? You do realize that this is a very small percentage of the airline's network...

Flying_Duck

When I am invited to big meetings in Europe as a speaker by well-to-do pharmaceutical companies (2-3 times a year), I often fly in-and-out (3 days total) and has as a condition that I fly in C. Becaue of the less than 7 day stay, thiis always means full J tickets that when bought from Europe typically runs 7-9,000 Euro. I have learned, that if I travel AF on those tickets, I almost always get upgraded to F (worth 10-12,000 Euro) Thus, there is usually a fringe benefit of the J over I or Z for me.

But looking at a ticket worth US$ 10,000 or more that I usually pay no more than $3,000 foir myself is sort of mindbonggling (for me) and I have to be careful when complaining about high medication prices as some of that is clearly supporting people like me flying in style!!

hfly

Yes Threy is absolutely right, Chapter 11 is only meant for airlines and is not a bankruptcy protection law that is available to all companies, and identical laws do not exist in other places as well. The US has never allowed any carriers to exist, and carriers such as Pan Am, Eastern, TWA and a hundred more that I will not list are still around. Over half the airlines in Europe are not in technical bankruptcy or have been in the last decade, and the other half have never received a cent of state subsidy (let alone $4 billion dollops in one go) Lastly I am unable to walk over to my local LH office in IST and but an Econ ticket to any point in the US at almost any time of the year connecting in Germany for under $350, nor can I buy a J ticket almost anywhere LH flies IN THE WORLD for appx. under 2000 Euros at almost any point in the year, this is because of course LH has such great pricing power.

Lastly, I would hope that this self declared expert would realize that fares and yields have gone UP since DL and NW have gone into ch.11 even fuel costs are eliminated. Nice theory to bad it bites.

opus17

I've bought a few J tickets in my time (personal, not business), but not on DL (only because I almost always get upgrades on DL).

daron4000

Well it's not as if 299 for economy plus access for one whole year is a lot when this lady was paying 3000 for one flight, one way.

Threy

Spare me with your never ending fairy tales about the Government supported European airlines and the brilliant state of the US airline industry, you are alone anyway on that battle field....

In fact , carriers like BA are expected to earn their WACC in 2006 and will post a ROIC/WACC ratio above 1.

sxf24

No, you're alone on that battle field. Instead of BA, look at say, AZ...

Threy

Since when is AZ bankrupt and operating in Ch.11 ?

Did I miss something ?

Lex Berlusconi for AZ being signed without anyone realising it...

sxf24

Yes, you did.

Mark075

Speaking of fares to Germany and how DL compares to others... This year i saw $320 RT (taxes included) flights from NYC to TXL on LH. These fares were running for a while.

$320 for ~4000 mile TATL flights. Now that's pricing power!!! I'm glad LH has it figured out, unlike DL.

ClipperDelta

OK, we go through this all the time with Threy - Who is scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of offering dirt cheap fares in winter from Europe to the U.S.?

Well, here's an example of DUS-MIA leaving Nov 8 and returning Nov 16 which came from www.ebookers.de, one of the websites that sells consolidator-type fares:

1) KL/NW EUR 211 before taxes; EUR 439 all-in
2) BA EUR 253 before taxes; EUR 452 all-in
3) Deutsche Bahn/US EUR 412 before taxes; EUR 475 all-in
4) AF EUR 253 before taxes; EUR 482 all-in
5) Deutsche Bahn / AC EUR 344 before taxes; 527 all-in
6) DL (via the DUS-ATL nonstop) EUR 517 before taxes; EUR 580 all-in
7) LH/UA EUR 320 before taxes; EUR 611 all-in.
8) LH/AA EUR 461 before taxes; EUR 627 all-in

I checked some other date pairings in November for the same routing, and NW/KL always came in at the lowest, followed by BA, then in some cases AA, followed by AF. DL usually came in at about #5 -7. So there you have it! Proof that DL is not the only discounter in the game and that there are plenty of others that beat DL at the discounting game (even after adding back fuel surcharges)!

RSSrsvp

Threy, please explain to everyone how this statement by hfly is a fairy tale. Submit to us a detailed explanation of how you have determined that hfly's statement is not factual.

Rssrsvp - Moderator

hfly

Thought that I would point out that according to a story on CNN today, yields for Us carriers have increased by 17% in the past year (non fuel related) and that US carriers now have greater pricing power than European carriers (who are "beseiged by LCC's). I for one am waiting with baited brath for Threy's detailed explanation (oh yeah, BA was pretty much the only European carrier not included in waht I wrote above).