RobertS975

Flew FCO-JFK yesterday, and would like to share some ST observations. On the flight, there were at least a dozen Mexican passengers who were apparently on AeroMexico tickets connecting at JFK for AM flights to MEX and MTY. Although it was gratifying to see SkyTeam in action, it raised some interesting problems. These Mexican pax were all holding a DL document that I had never seen before: "Delta In-Transit Passenger Without Visa". Unlike many European hubs, it is much more difficult to transit an American hub from one international flight to another without actually entering the USA, and apparently this DL document allows international transit pax at hubs like JFK even if the pax are not in possession of documents that would allow entry into the US. I have no idea how this was actually handled as the two AM flights are handled at gates which are obviously on the other side of passport control and Customs. Are these in-transit passengers somehow isolated or escorted 100% of the time?

BDABOY

Similar experiences as follows:

1) ATL-YYZ DL828 28SEP02:
Flight delayed for 20 minutes
waiting for 6 pax from AM connecting flight "in transit"
**I was quite surprised/disturbed to find people already on the aircraft as I was the first first class pax on flight! Flight attendant was not amused either - also appears the flight leader is responsible for them once on flight.

2) ATL-FCO DL70 30Sep02:
Flight delayed for 60 minutes
approx 50 pax from AM connecting flight "in transit"
**Pax in coach not amused - they thought they'd lucked in a quite empty flight!!! But we boarded on time & waited 60minutes for the other passengers. Didn't make up any time on the other side. I had a 5 hr connection - but others with closer connect times were not happy campers.

Overall:

1)the "in transit" passengers seemed quite dazed/confused as to what was going on.

2)US Immigration's processing of NON-US residents is very slow. I miss at least 2 flights a year when have to clear immigration at ATL.

3) Why don't these passengers have US TRANSIT VISA's? (usually the airline has to pay large fines for passengers without proper documentation - or take them back to country of origin).

4) How is it that one can travel via the US without the proper documents? Does DL have a special agreement with customs.

The best strategy for NON-US Residents at ATL is to get in the FOREIGN VISITORS line closest to the US lines (if the immigration officials allow you to). That way SOMETIMES they let some foreign visitors in the US line.

SKYTEAM needs to resolve these issues for FOREIGNERS & US Citizens connectining INTERNATIONAL TO INTERNATIONAL.

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"Things work out the best for those who make the best of the way things work out"

RobertS975

Actually, although it is a problem for SkyTeam, it is actually a problem inherent in our airport layout and construction. In most other countries, if you are taking a flight out of the country, you go through passport control and then you are on a concourse where everything is duty-free and you are essentially already out of the country. In the US, even in our international terminals, we have no such thing. So the problem of non-US citizens travelling through ATL, JFK or with other carriers, MIA is a real one.

The terminals that DL uses at JFK are so obsolete and dysfunctional, it isn't even funny anymore. It is the only terminal I have ever been to where as soon as you walk into the door, you are inside of security. I have no idea how you check an unaccompanied minor in, or simply go there to buy a ticket. Since basically you need to be a passenger just to get in the front door at JFK.

But most American airports are not designed to handle international transit passengers.

rcs85551

Seems like you have not been to JFK for quite some time. Things changed a couple of months ago...

RobertS975

Well, actually, I changed planes at JFK just yesterday coming home from Rome. As for actually originating there, I haven't done that since last Feb. What exactly has changed? Do you mean that it is no longer obsolete and dysfunctional? As an American, I am frankly embarassed that the DL (ex-PA) JFK terminal is the very first impression of the USA that some foriegners will get on arrival.

There was serious talk about DL building a new terminal at JFK, but with the $$ woes, that is certainly on hold. And who knows what will happen after the mega-codeshare goes through?

[This message has been edited by RobertS975 (edited 10-14-2002).]

Greg45

.. with a few exceptions, most of which are temporary fixes.

E.g., Air New Zealand has a sterile transit area in LAX for passengers connecting between their London and New Zealand/Australia flights.

Personally, I try to avoid connecting from an international flight after arriving in the U.S. As opposed to most other countries, you have to go thru immigration etc. and recheck your bags. This makes connection times unpredictable and much too long. It also costs U.S. airlines (my) business, as I would definetely choose MUC-FRA/CDG/LHR-LAX over say MUC-ATL/ORD-LAX anytime.

rcs85551

Set aside the beauty issues of the terminal, they do have the check-in and ticketing counters outside of security for a couple of months now, as pointed out in different threads here on the board.
The put in a transparent wall (=glass) to seperate the ticket counter from the secure area. Also, the BizElite driveway seems to be operational again as well.

andymo99

All of JFK is an aesthetic embarrassment, and it is indeed regrettable that JFK is the first impression that many foreigners will make of the USA.

BizJet

US airports aren't designed to handle international thru passengers. The airport design is such that, for inbound passengers, the only sterile (from an INS point of view, not security) area is the walkway from the gate to the customs/immigration facility. There is no sterile departure area at all.

The quick fix to this problem at airports that handle thru passengers (such as Houston and Atlanta) is to create a sterile waiting room for through passengers ("international transit lounge"). Thru passengers are escorted to the room by airline employees, who escort them to the departure gate when its time. Since they haven't cleared any immigration formalities, they aren't allowed to stop at all while walking through the concourse to their departure gate. The waiting room itself is Spartan, with just chairs and bathroom and vending machines usually.

This is a horrible, albeit temporary, solution. The transit passengers certainly feel even more like cattle than the average air traveler does.

CKDGM

Terminal 1 (AF and others) is very nice and new and modern. Terminal 4, formerly known as the IAB, is very nice and new and modern. In between are terminals 2 and 3, which were nice and new and modern at one point...before the airport was named after JFK.

At least BOS has the new Terminal A to look forward to....

andymo99

CK, even if there are some nice terminals at JFK, I still think the JFK experience is a poor welcome to the USA. I am referencing also the roads and all. This is especially the case at BOS as well, but hopefully the roads situation will be beautified by the time the new A Terminal is ready in 2005.

sowalsky

I've never had this misfortune, but have you looked into INSPass?

GrapeDane

INSpass was canceled after 9/11.
My understanding was the they are looking at a better sytem. I enjoyed it a lot.
Let me know if they have started it up again?

rcs85551

INSPass was cancelled? I did not notice that... the only thing I know is that is was suspended for a certain amount of time after 09/11.

Regardless, INSPass was never implemented in ATL and CVG, the only DL hub offering INSPass is JFK.

gt123

I've been told that DL holds the passports of the "in-transit" passengers until they board the flight out of the USA. That's why they have that "in-transit" piece of paper in their hand.

Also, INSpass is alive and well at the Toronto US Immigration and Customs processing facility and they even issue the pass right on the spot. I go thru there every week and see lots of people using it.

[This message has been edited by gt123 (edited 10-15-2002).]