elsie

[QUOTE=jimrpa]Where is this mythical "attentive" AF flight attendant??? Yes, they're professional, but I'd NEVER describe an AF flight attendant as "attentive" (well, the ones on Concorde WERE "attentive", but then it WAS Concorde!)

Seriously, I've flown AF internationally and within Europe. Generally, the FAs will provide quick, prompt service and vanish. Don't expect them to voluntarily wander the cabin to see if you need anything. On the other hand, if you get up and ASK them for something, they will get it for you.

As for the NTC seats - WAY overrated! Yes, they are FLAT, but I suggest you take a look at the episodes of Babylon 5 where John Sheridan is trying to learn how to sleep in Mimbari beds to get an idea of what your sleeping experience in NTC will be like. Basically, AF NTC seats ARE flat, but their at a steep angle - you'll have to tense the muscles in your legs and keep them tense all night to avoid sliding down the seat. (Believe me, when I heard AF was putting in lie-flat seats, I was dancing for joy. I honestly thought that I would finally find transatlantic Nirvana. Then I tried the seats. A night of tense leg muscles and no sleep - back to Delta for me!)

Yea! I think the seats are fine enough for a DAY flight, but at night, I could never get comfortable. I didn't have the sliding effect, but it was tossing and turning and pressing the buttons all the time to try and adjust. I have heard that they are developing some kind of "second version" of these seats that will go on to all the new planes, i.e. A380 and the refitted 772's. Has anyone heard anything more about this?

karthik

Your 99% is probably correct. I had a steak cooked to order in J on KE LAX-ICN earlier this week, where cooked to order meant nothing less than medium. (I like my steaks nice and bloody.) Still, it was good, and the meal service was excellent overall, so I have no complaints.

(And it was on a DL award ticket, so I swear I'm on-topic! )

mondo

There's a saying that one shouldn't argue about tastes or colors. Having said that, I can't believe what I'm reading.

IMHO, the food on AF is way better than DL in both J/Y (but I prefer foie gras to Sizzler). On some flights, AF has some weird selections (e.g. some really strong fried fish thing, or the westbound pre-arrival snack on AF (in Y) which is usually a sandwich on stale bread). This is a problem when they run out of the other choice.

Seats on the NTC, while they are not to be compared with truly lie-flat seats on other carriers, are still better than DLs. If you recline them to essentially a cradle position, I found them to be more comfy than DL/BE (I know this by how much sleep I get).

The other item to consider is that on AF you will more than likely get a B777, A340, B747 or A330. On DL you have a choice of B767/B777 (with only few B777 to pick from). The odds are that your seat wil be wider on AF depending on acft model.

Flight attendants. Ok, DLs are more responsive, but on the other hand I have sometimes wanted them to stop chatting with a passenger nearby so I could get some sleep.

RobertS975

As soon as DL starts the service to Africa, in all liklihood, there will no longer be any 777 service to continental Europe... NRT, JNB, TLV will just about occupy the 777 fleet.

hfly

Whether or not NTC stinks is immaterial as even 5 years after announcing it they have yet to kit out more than perhaps half the fleet with it. Especially from the US you have a very slight chance of getting it (something like one JFK flight out of five!) although I understand that they have had it to Burkina FAso for severa years (really shows what their market priorities are!). Espace 127 IS perhaps the worst Biz product of any major airline flying in the world today. I personally find NTC to be sub-par, and especially bad for anyone substantially over 6 feet tall (forgetting the fact that the angle is crap) however it is much in line with what Af's direct competitors such as Lh have been installing. IMHO waited o long to redo their biz that it was a real shame that they went that route, seriously KLM's new product isn;t much better, but at least there is more pitch and they have the best AVOD in the sky.

Regarding food and service, they can be serving awesome stuff, however when it is served to you either frozen or burnt on a regular basis, it is crap. As far as the FA's are concerned Jim hit it on the head, they do the minimum possible and hide the entire flight. As for drink selection, well if you like French wine, you are in luck on AF, however if you like anyother wine or almost any other alcoholic drink,other than perhaps one sctch and one vodka brand that they carry you are way out of luck. While not only AF specific, god forbid you have a misconnect at CDG, as even the "normal" connect is a nightmare.

deltajfk

Choose Delta, I had horrible experiences with Air France. Also who ever said something about great f/a's, what are you talking about? I always find them to be rude.

misbeehavin

My preference would be:

1. DL 777
2. AF NTC
3. DL 763
4. AF OTC

Seats
DL is 2-2-2 in BizE, compared to 2-3-2 on AF's 777s.
DL's 763 seats are quite narrow compared to the other 3 options.

IFE
AF's IFE is better, in my opinion.

Food
AF's choices are limited to 2-3 entrees, but it's always been very good.
DL has a much wider choice of entrees and it's ranged from okay to excellent.
What irks me about AF is that they serve on a tray.

Service
Many of DL's FAs are old and tottering or large and tottering, but they make up for it in friendliness and warmth.
Most of AF's FAs are "French", so they have that attitude / sexiness / Frenchness / je ne sais quoi to go with. And they're all easy on the eyes, for sure.


Conclusion: Delta! Delta! Delta!

Serpentos

AF hands down !
I always had bad experiences flying DL and the food is a JOKE !
AF is certainly the most criticized major airline on FT, which sometime, like any major airline, is fully justified (CDG is a nightmare, albeit this is not AF's fault), but facts are here :
Greatest food in Y compared to other major airline, free champagne (who else offer free champagne in Y ?)
Solid product in C (on par to competitive airlines), with NTC seat and great and fancy food.
Outstanding F class, way better than ANY european/american F class, by far.

Seriously guys, AF and DL are not playing in the same league....

mondo

Sometimes an airline stumbles upon the formula to satisfy some customer segment. So you get posts like "Delta Delta Delta" or "AF hands down". Personally, I always find it's a tradeoff, if it wasn't then the poorly managed airline would be bankrupt and would lose money all the time...oh wait .

AF has a better rating as an overall airline than Delta. But I would argue this is driven by Delta's poor Y-class product. In business, the airlines seem to be on par. On the Delta board, people will pick Delta. Given the objective facts presented (here and on many prior threads), what would you rather have?

Air France Delta
Absent FAs <-----> Ever present FAs
French Food <-----> American Food
NTC seats <-----> BE seats
127 seats <-----> BE seats
Bigger plane <------> B767-300/ER (most likely)
etc.

hfly

Serpentos..........A Solid C product? No, sorry but by definition any product which is not balanced across a fleet especially after 4-5 years s NOT a C product (especially when the majority of the fleet still has the worst pitch and recline in the industry- not to mention 3 across). A 'F" comparison is spurious, as 1) AF only offers it on about a dozen routes worldwide, and 2) because many US carriers do NOT offer it. I would really hope that for an extra $5000 they could offer something better than anyone else's Business class. As it stands, yeah, it is better, but not that much better than many other carriers J class.

As for food, yes Y may be better. As fortunately I have only flown Y something like twice Transatlantically in the last 25 years (at an average of about 30 segments per year) I cannot judge comparatively. One of those two times was an emergency on AF and the food was pukeworthy - I would not however judge their Y food based on that as Y food is generally poor across all airlines. I will say again that IMHO AF food (in biz)is generally so badly prepared that due to either its ROCK HARD frozen state or due to being charred beyond recognition that the inherent food quality is moot.

opus17

From California, this isn't even close. Go with AF. You might even get upgraded to First (I was a couple of weeks ago, CDG-LAX)

hfly

BTW, many of DL's "mama's" have left the airline, taking payoffs to retire. It would seem that many FT'ers would be happy to hear this news, however most serious road warriors will miss them.

mondo

I'm curious, has anyone else experienced this frozen or charred food problem on Air France? As opposed to the raw pizza dough in Y on DL.

As for the balance across the fleet, many carriers have inconsistencies across the fleet during transition. (I'm puzzled by the 4-5 years, since the first plane to roll out with NTC was supposed to be Nov. 2003.) But I do agree with you that AF has a problem with customers not knowing what they're buying (NTC, Evolution, or Espace 127). Delta usually tells you what you're buying...(BE or not) although I have found some dishonesty with regards to calling some flights BE when they are most certainly NOT.

dg4255

Again, just speaking from my own experience. I am only 5'8", so the need to tense my legs to not slide is just not there. My lard-... is firmly in the seat and not going anywhere, especially since I am a side sleeper.
As for the FA's, I have simply found the AF FA's to be more attentive. Yes, attentive. I've never really had one give me any type of snooty attitude. I find the French to be very warm and kind. In fact, I've experienced more genuine smiles and attention from the AF FA's than the DL FA's. Once, on AF, I was sitting in the rear of C class and thus when it came time for my choice of meal, the beef was already gone. Unfortunately, I am allergic to fish, so this wasn't going to be my choice. The FA was extremely apologetic and went to grab the purser. The purser came and he apologised again, profusely and said they would find something more suitable. So, they took one of the captain's meals, put it on C class china, and brought it to me. It was a delicious beef tenderloin with peppercorn butter sauce, haricots verts, baby carrots with cane sugar sauce and butter, etc etc etc.. very nice meal. The captain even sent me a note to my seat thanking me for allowing him to have my fish. He was getting tired of the beef selection anyway.
AF has some problems to some people, but MY experience has always been pretty darn good.

hfly

Mondo, again, sorry can't comment, I believe that my last DL TA Y flight was in 1992 or so, perhaps its crap in Y, as are most airlines. Sorta like comparing which Wal MArt has the nicest parking lot (been to Wal Mart once in my life, interesting experience, something that I might do again if stuck in podunkville, but not something that I either look forward to or something that I really matters)

When exactly does DL tell you that you have BE and you do not? On some "shallow" Latin American flights they sell BUSINESS, not BUSINESS ELITE. Different name. Anyway, IIRC, Air France originally announced in 2001 that they would have a NTC, and start to implement it by mid-2002. It then disappeared and only in late 2002 started to make some vague noises. Then by mid 2003 they rolled it out on a couple of planes, which is basically what it remained limited to for about a year, at that time I believe that they promised that everything would be COMPLETED by the end of 2004 (or possibly early 2005) Well, its halfway through 2006 and they ain't even close. When DL went BE IIRC they did the entire fleet in something like 14 months. At least BA announced that the reason that their changeover took 5 years was due to severe cost cutting. AF never really cut the money for the programme, but still could not/cannot get itself in gear. Worse, try calling a AF premium reservations line and ask which JFK-CDG flight has NTC, they have to ask around (or you have to tell them to look for which plane is which). Why don;t you ask them for a really extic drink, next time you fly.......... A Rum and Coke perhaps (whether you say Bacard or not, it doesn't matter, they don't have rum), You want a scotch? Better like JB or whatever crap "well" brand they have on board, cause that's all they have. Gin?? You get the idea.