Delta & Pilots Squabbling Again
Mar 17, 2002, 8:15 am
#31
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ATL, PM
Posts: 440
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Seth:
At what point do pilots have the right to hold airlines and passengers "hostage" in their attempts to make more money?
I do know that if pilots and management for several airlines don't stop looking at the business as "us vs them", the traveling public will have less choices in the future because some airlines will not be around. This would benefit NO ONE.
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At what point do pilots have the right to hold airlines and passengers "hostage" in their attempts to make more money?
I do know that if pilots and management for several airlines don't stop looking at the business as "us vs them", the traveling public will have less choices in the future because some airlines will not be around. This would benefit NO ONE.
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It is an absolute hoot (far better than "Celebrity Boxing" could ever hope to be) watching as some of these prima donna tortured souls argue, name call and fight about who is going to get what piece of the pie.
Since the pie size has been shrinking for the past 18 months and since the attacks of 9/11 nearly threw the entire pie on the floor, they are beside themselves that their income expectations are at risk. And they HAVE to find someone to blame.
Their answer to the "how do we grow the pie" dilemma is always charge more for each ticket. Or they try decrease the number of pie eaters by sticking it to the next pilot lower on the seniority list.
[This message has been edited by BertBamboo (edited 03-17-2002).]
Mar 19, 2002, 11:12 am
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: SAN Diego (Hillcrest); formerly LEXington, KY; still like the nym
Programs: DL Platinum; Marriott Lifetime Platinum; married to Hilton Elite
Posts: 3,028
More news on the labor front: ComAir and its FAs are now playing the mid-game, as reported by James Pilcher in the Cincinnati Enquirer.
Bert, yes, I was teasing you about my PB posts. Guilds protected craftsmen from competition while providing a good pool of low paid labor on the prospect of succeeding to the protected, highly-paid position. The parallel to pilots' unions is remarkable.
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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Delta Flyers' Guide
[edited to add a slash]
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited 03-19-2002).]
Bert, yes, I was teasing you about my PB posts. Guilds protected craftsmen from competition while providing a good pool of low paid labor on the prospect of succeeding to the protected, highly-paid position. The parallel to pilots' unions is remarkable.
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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Delta Flyers' Guide
[edited to add a slash]
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited 03-19-2002).]
Apr 24, 2002, 2:08 pm
#33
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ATL, PM
Posts: 440
DAL stock is moving up today. The move is attributed to announced increase in online booking and MER recommendation this morning. I wonder if there is any anticipation of Delta winning the pilots' furlough grievance. The arbitrator's decision is expected to be announced later today or tomorrow.
Apr 24, 2002, 7:22 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ATL, PM
Posts: 440
I haven't seen a news release yet but over on http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthr...&threadid=4555 FlyDeltasJets is saying that the pilots lost the furlough grievance.
[This message has been edited by BertBamboo (edited 04-24-2002).]
[This message has been edited by BertBamboo (edited 04-24-2002).]
Apr 24, 2002, 8:34 pm
#35
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 81
I don't know - where in this great world/country of ours is there a guarantee of work at a heck of a lot more than minimum wage? Seems to me that Delta is a corporation with shareholders at risk for a ton (more than any other affiliated group) of money. Based on that premises, should they not receive more, or at least equal, consideration than other affiliated groups?
I respect the skills and abilities of DL's pilots as well as their dedication, but I don't respect the union's push to cause these dedicated folk to get more consideration than the folks who own the airline or those of us passengers who pay them. The owners face the prospect of losing everything if bankruptcy becomes necessary because of losses. And heck, folks, losses have been horrendous the past few quarters. Blame that fact on whomever you want, but pilot salaries certainly are one of the major causes along with, of course, some management snafus.
Guess I've thought for years that the pilots should buy the airline and then set salaries as they please. Of course that theory didn't work at UL so don't think the idea will fly, but salaries for many pilots that approach the President's somehow doesn't seem fair.
Summarizing, pilots can't bleed blood from a dry turnip, and DL management seems to be trying (i. e. CRJ's) to get some blood back in the turnip. I don't like CRJs, but **** it, if their use helps to curtail company losses I would put them on line too.
I do not own DL stock, do not condone a lot of what Leo's team does with respect to its customers, and am not anti pilot - but seems to me that ALL of groups involved, including paying and neglected passengers, need to bear the brunt of the economic situation now facing DL and a lot of other industries.
I respect the skills and abilities of DL's pilots as well as their dedication, but I don't respect the union's push to cause these dedicated folk to get more consideration than the folks who own the airline or those of us passengers who pay them. The owners face the prospect of losing everything if bankruptcy becomes necessary because of losses. And heck, folks, losses have been horrendous the past few quarters. Blame that fact on whomever you want, but pilot salaries certainly are one of the major causes along with, of course, some management snafus.
Guess I've thought for years that the pilots should buy the airline and then set salaries as they please. Of course that theory didn't work at UL so don't think the idea will fly, but salaries for many pilots that approach the President's somehow doesn't seem fair.
Summarizing, pilots can't bleed blood from a dry turnip, and DL management seems to be trying (i. e. CRJ's) to get some blood back in the turnip. I don't like CRJs, but **** it, if their use helps to curtail company losses I would put them on line too.
I do not own DL stock, do not condone a lot of what Leo's team does with respect to its customers, and am not anti pilot - but seems to me that ALL of groups involved, including paying and neglected passengers, need to bear the brunt of the economic situation now facing DL and a lot of other industries.
Apr 25, 2002, 3:00 am
#36
Join Date: May 2001
Location: florida/new mexico
Programs: delta/song
Posts: 271
Why is it that 1 bil dollars from the gov't and tax refunds never was included in the Q1 loss? DL claims in "force Majure" that people are not flying and they have no money. Why is it then for every mainline jet you park, you are buying 4 RJ'S? Why then is DL, giving employees raises, bringing back 500 f/a from leave, giving vouchers worth 800-1,000 because of senseless overbooking and at the same time not listening to their most valued customers and furoughing pilots? Lets get back into the business of making money, keeping your loyal pax happy and flying real jets. Our employees are worth every penny they are paid. The pilots get you there safe and the f/a's try and make up for the hassle you experienced on your way to the A/C. So, enough with the "greedy" word!
Apr 25, 2002, 4:18 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,692
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by BertBamboo:
I haven't seen a news release yet but FlyDeltasJets is saying that the pilots lost the furlough grievance.</font>
I haven't seen a news release yet but FlyDeltasJets is saying that the pilots lost the furlough grievance.</font>
[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 04-25-2002).]
Apr 25, 2002, 4:34 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: MA
Programs: DL DM/2MM Marriott Platinum, HH Diamond,
Posts: 8,908
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by B747-437B:
The ALPA mailing list had the info yesterday. Public release should have been today, but may be held till Friday.
[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 04-25-2002).]</font>
The ALPA mailing list had the info yesterday. Public release should have been today, but may be held till Friday.
[This message has been edited by B747-437B (edited 04-25-2002).]</font>