Mr Leach - Thank you for explaining "Average" to the others. Didn't think that it was that tough of a concept to understand.

One last comment - I would think that those who are complaining the most about no L fare upgrades are the same people that are on the low end of those averages and those that it rarely affects are on the high end.

ALHCFP - Boston to Atlanta - 4 segments - BOS to LGA to CVG to MEM to ATL. One of my former coworkers (one without much of a life) did it a few times last year. He booked it through a travel agency and they somehow got around the rules. He was finally caught (and his account audited - ha ha) when he raised to much heck when one of the segments was cancelled and they rebooked him BOS to ATL non stop and he called to demand the segments that he would have other wise received. I won't even begin to tell you the story of another of his cohorts that spent a week in Florida last Feb flying Delta Express back and forth across the state all day long on $19 fares to pump up the segments so he could drink for free for the next 2 years.

Justin - I agree that the politicans will try to prevent money = miles but from what I understand, TWA is already doing something along those lines now. And, if you guys are paying attention, Delta is running a promotion this summer that will give you base mile credit for the class bonuses when you fly on a paid First Class ticket. (Hope that I don't get in trouble for saying those dirty words "PAID First Class Ticket")

To JoanH...

I think it's time you hang out with a better class of employee...one who understands that time is money.

However thank you for agreeing with me..."THAT IT WAS AGAINST THE RULES"

The one thing that irks me about segments are direct flights with stops. If I fly MSY-DCA on the Delta direct flight I get 1 segment and 965 miles, but if I fly on a connecting flight I get 1047 miles and 2 segments. Guess which flight I typically try to avoid?

Even more irksome about direct flights with a stop is that you have to upgrade the whole ticket, which is usually very difficult since you have to get the same seat on both legs of the trip.

The worst direct flights, which really drives me nuts, are the direct flights with one stop and change of plane. Recently I was on one of these flights and got off to get a snack, and I glance at a monitor in the terminal and see my gate had changed since I left the plane. I had to go back and get my carry on and then dash over to another terminal to get on a different 757.

JoanH ~ Obviously your friend deserved what he got. He must be a massochist anyway to willingly take four flights in place of one, and then to have the nerve to complain about getting "cheated" out of three segments.

JoanH ~ By the way, "PAID First Class" isn't always a bad word. I've found this out recently on a trip I'm taking next month, MSY-CHS.

Advance Purchase, non-refundable, round-trip: $825

Advance Purchase, refundable, round-trip: $885 (this is what I almost always buy for business trips anyway, the cheapest refundable ticket available)

First-class: $965

Considering the bonuses for first class, not having to worry about upgrades, etc, in this case it may be worth the extra $80 for first class. Of course, this is a rare case where it is so inexpensive (or more correctly, where there is no relatively inexpensive advance purchase fare).

Alhcfp and Beckles -

Please note that I said "former" coworker - not friend. :) This guy was the stuff that Dilbert cartoons are made of.

Oh yes, and to answer Justin from a few days back - if all those people waiting for standby were employees, they have probably all been fired by now for acting so obnoxious when they didn't get in first class. Seriously though, I know that these were mostly elite level travelers. They all had the tags on their luggage, they continously bug the gate agent to know what their chances for upgrade is and where are they on the wait list. And you always have a few that have to alert everyone within 40 miles how much they fly and how the airline would go broke without their patronage. There seems to be less of that in the past few months.

Hi JoanH..

I still have a problem by judging the majority by the actions of a few screwballs..

As for elites sitting around...most gate agents have started naming those passangers still in the running (usually 1 or 2 in ATL)
and the others go on.....I believe this is the reason for your observation of more on time performance....the L fare situation has had no effect on this....in fact using your logic..the exact opposite would be true..ie..
exclude L's and more seats are available for last minute upgrades thereby allowing more passangers to stand-by for their upgrade.

I really can't figure out why airlines give out segments or award mileage differently on a nonstop than on flight that requires a connection??? Again, the reverse seems to happen...you get more miles by dividing up a flight and fewer by taking the nonstop. I would think airlines would discourage connections because with each connection, there is an increased chance of lost baggage or being bumped, missing the connection and having to put the passenger in a hotel for a night, and having to give out more miles. Personally, I always prefer the nonstop and will only book a connecting flight over a nonstop when there are several factors in favor of the connection, FF miles are usually the least of the factors influencing my decision, often aircraft type is probably the greatest - To the west coast, I would rather take a new 767 wide body with a movie and a meal rather than an old 727 with no movie and no meal.

Justin ~ I'll always take a non-stop flight over a connecting flight anyday also. That is not the primary issue here. The thing that ticks me off are *direct* flights with a stop.

Basically its the same as a connecting flight, but you just get gipped out of a segment and some miles. Given this I avoid *direct* flights that have stops in favor of connecting flights, because if I'm going to have to stop in Atlanta, I might as well get something for it. This is especially true because I've found that more often than not on *direct* flights I've been on, we've ended up switching planes and gates, therefore completely eliminating any advantage such a flight might offer.

for us (non US based people) there is an advantage of flight-numbers going "trough", because we can buy visit-usa-coupons where one coupon is valid for one-flight-number (regardless how many flight segments or stopvers with less than 24hrs). Yes - it makes only sense (besides accrueing some more miles)- if there is now trough-flight at all or if you want to make a short stop/stay in a connecting place.

Beckles,

I look for the wording "nonstop" in my flight itinery. If it doesn't say nonstop, then I make sure I know which stops and change of planes I will have to make - before buying the ticket. To me, "direct flight" is almost a meaningless term and don't even pay attention to it.

Justin ~ "direct flight" is not meaningless ... what it means is that Delta is going to screw you out of a flight segment, some miles, and make it at least twice as hard to get an upgrade.

direct flight certainly does not mean what it originally was supposed to mean. I look for non-stop, and if no non-stop then I know to avoid "direct" flights, which the airlines are glad to point out are a whole $3 cheaper (no PFC on the intermediate stop).

Has anyone had trouble trying to upgrade K class fares? I tried to upgrade from IND to ATL recently and was told the KRA14 fare basis did not qualify for a Platinum upgrade.

I contacted consumer affairs and have received this response from Ms. Folger.
"The rules of the fare are contingent upon whether upgrades are allowed. Certain discounted fares booked in K class of service do not allow upgrades. I suggest you inquire at the time you make your reservations if the fare quote allows upgrades if first class travel is preferred".

Just to add. The flight was booked through special member services, and they waitlisted me for the upgrade.

That's very odd. The segment upgrades are valid on any published fare except L class. The only thing that might apply is that the K class fare you got was an "unpublished" fare, but typically K class fares are published and upgradeable, and airlines usually use some other letter for unpublished fares.

I thought that certain discounted fares that did not allow upgrades were call L-class fares. *L*