Jeyna,

Well, I am one of those Gold Medallion members that must pay for my own tickets. In the preceding months before the 800-mile segment upgrade changes, I had a limited number of upgrade certificates and chose not to use them because I wanted to save them for later flights. Well, I saved them...and I still have them!!! ..because I was unable to use them all up before January 1, 1998. Not only could I not use them up, but I often could not use them because everyone else was trying to use their upgrades too(before Jan 1st), so they wouldn't get stuck holding useless upgrade certificates like me. I just feel that any 800-mile segment upgrades earned prior to the announcement should have been valid for upgrades on L-class fares for a full 1-year period from the date of issue.

Jeyna,

I guess you get the message now given the numerous responses you have received regarding your posting.

MileKing's postings on June 10 and 11 are excellent summations of what the issues are and how most of us in this thread feel. I notice that you are new to this thread (2 postings as of today). As with all other threads, it would benefit you to educate yourself as to what kind of people participate in a given thread before writing your own posting. You cannot just simplistically characterize a group of people as "whining" without learning the true reasons behind such postings and the characteristics of the people participating in the thread.

As you might have learned by now, we are very frequent travelers who fly more than 100 segments a year and has elite status with other airlines other than DL. We are "exceptionally educated and knowledgeable" as pointed out by alhcfp on 6/11/98. We know what we are talking about.

I do not fly Delta at all. Probably because I am in Houston and Continental dominates the market, much like Delta in Atlanta and
American in Dallas.

After reading all this, I am very happy that I
am not flying Delta, but on one of the best
FF upgrade programs available, OnePass.
Continental will get my business for over 100 flights per year.

Living in Atlanta, I almost always fly Delta, and now, with double FF miles because of my Medallion status, I find it difficult to switch airlines because of the miles/status that I have accumulated over the years. Does anyone know which airlines are matching Delta's FF status? If you do, what do I need to do to get the matching status on another airline?

regarding references to other airlines & Continental -

Despite almost always using Delta, I have flown other airlines occasionally. A few years ago, on Continental, a gate agent overlooked me while waiting in line at the gate; as a result, the standby passengers were boarded before I was checked in. With another flight in 90 minutes, I wasn't really upset, but without me making any comment or complaint, the gate agent, out of courtesy, booked me in 1st class on the next flight despite the low-fare coach ticket I was holding. A similar experience on Delta resulted in me missing my flight which caused me to have to cancel my weekend vacation and re-ticket for the following weekend. Then, the following week, on the same ticket, I found myself black-listed! Believe it or not...After using 800-mile segment upgrades to confirm a 1st class seat assignment - the day before, after I was checked-in and surrendered my 800-mile segment upgrades, and after boarding the plane with a 1st class ticket, a Delta flight attendant took me off the plane, a csr(redcoat) handed my 800-mile upgrade certificates back and said that a manager had placed a note in my ticket comments that stated that I was not to be allowed in 1st class! Delta never gave any valid reason for me being black listed from 1st class other than it was misinterpretation by the personel at the airport - no less than 5 Delta employees that is. One note: this is not every detail...just the basic chain of events, but it was clearly a breach of my ability to use my upgrade certificates; 3 weeks later, on a different ticket but the same itinery and same fare cost & class, I had absolutely no problem using my 800-mile segment upgrades.

Thank you all for your feedback...it was very informative. Who knows...maybe Delta will drop the L fare restriction in 1999 and take seats away from those horrible non-rev passengers. I guess we just have to wait and see. Good luck to you all.
And just for the record...I do travel ALOT. Probably not as much as some of you...but enough. Usually 80-90 segments a year.

Jayna...

There you go again......NOBODY except YOU called NRSA's (employees) "Horrible"
On the contrary......MOST Delta employees
are very dedicated..work hard and do their utmost to help elite's. They feel terrible that management has tied their hands and many have been threatened with dismissal for "Doing an Elite a favor"

I and most elites enjoy the opportunity to sit next to an NRSA and talk....we both have something in common..Delta is a big part of our lives.

Your post only shows that you missed the boat again... Our complaint isn't NRSAs being upgraded...it's Delta's inconsistancy
on one hand saying L fare denials were about revenue and then giving the seats away for nothing. So PLEASE..stop putting words in our mouths....We generally have no complaints about Delta employees..it's management that should be responding to these posts.

One of the reasons for this decision about "L" fares that Delta cited was the number of complaints from passengers who paid full "Y" fares and could not get an upgrade. These are very likely business travelers who made last minute plans to travel. To them, I say too bad. If their company has no problem with them paying full fare, then maybe they should just book the flight in first class and pay the extra. *I* am being penalized for planning in advance.

And as far as Delta listening to their frequent flyers, bs. I have to believe that an order of magnitutude MORE people have complained about this decision than those that complained about not being able to upgrade from full fare tickets.

Do the math yourself. Say a flight in "L" is $300 and the corresponding upgradeable "K" fare is $500. (Delta claims it's "usually" only $30 or so more, but my experience has NOT shown that; usually it's 2 to 3 *times* more based on the routes I travel). So times 8 seats, Delta has gotten $1600 more revenue from that flight. But if those same 8 people got tired of being screwed by Delta and took their business elsewhere, that's $2400 they've lost, plus future business from those people who abandoned ship.

Is Delta listening? Yesterday's USA Today had an article about Delta's new VP of marketing, coming to Delta from Lufthansa, and also admitting that Delta does have customer satisfaction problems. Satisfaction problems? Keep putting the screws to your senior level frequent flyers, Delta, that should fix the problem....

Jarnold,

For a 2-hour or longer flight, I would gladly pay $30 more for a ticket that would allow me to use some of my 70 800-mile segment upgrades; however, I too have found that fares allowing upgrades are at least double that of the L-class fares.

Many people have posted interesting comments on this topic. To address a couple of them:

1.) If everyone will go back and look at your previous literature from Delta, in the fine print it says, in the Medallion/Gold Medallion/Platinum Medallion benefits guide that "fare applicability on segment upgrade program for travel on or after January 1, xxxx, to be announced in late xxxx." For example, the 1996 brochure said that such benefits effective Jan. 1, 1997, would be announced in late 1996. This year's brochure says that benefits effective January 1, 1999, will be announced in late 1998.

So, there is -- in my humble opinion -- no legal basis to dispute which fares the upgrades are applicable from, because Delta has consistently given notice in the Medallion literature that this is a decision not announced until later in the year.

2). It seems to me that this is a problem that every business would love to have: customers willing to spend $10K -- $20 K per year on your airline, just so you can put them in a slightly wider seat with slightly greater leg room and serve them a couple of drinks. Given that even in a great year, aircraft are only about 75% full on average (and usually more like 65-70%), why not put in more first class seats?? That way, you can accommodate your Platinum flyers as well as those buying full fares at the last minute!!! Is this revolutionary thinking, or what? What do you give up by doing this? The answer: three or four people who fly once a year on a $39 ticket. American and TWA have starting adding first class seats on narrow-body flights. It seems to me that this is the answer that pleases everybody. I truly do not believe that most Delta flyers are buying the higher fares -- as a rule -- just so they can upgrade, except perhaps on very long flights, like Atlanta to Honolulu.

I agree that it *may* solve many of the problems if Delta would put in more first class seats, as TWA and American have done. In fact, this was mentioned as a possible solution earlier on. The problem with this approach is that it costs Delta real money, whereas they don't seem to fully understand how much MORE money it is costing them in the long run to make a decision that put the screws to their senior level frequent flyers, even though it costs them "no money" to make such a decision. It is basic short-sightedness on Delta's part, making it clear that they really do not understand the mentality and makeup of their senior level frequent flyers.

Robert Leach,

Just because Delta says they can announce a change on December 31, 1997 affect January 1, 1998, that doesn't mean the change will withstand the test of consideration. I would say that if we earn something with the expectation we can use it anytime over the next year, then regardless of the wording of the FF terms and conditions, there would be a lack of consideration not to allow us the one-year period to use the 800-mile segment upgrades.

I saved my 800-mile segment upgrades by not upgrading on certain flights in early 1997; now, I am stuck with the 800-mile segment upgrades that I was unable to use during the 2nd half of 1997. I had the expectation of being able to use the 800-mile upgrades for a one-year period; therefor, Delta's change lacks consideration of my one-year expectation.

I consider all Delta FF miles, upgrades, etc to be the same as a cash rebate and I don't want to be shortchanged. I cannot remember the specifics of a lawsuit that was filed when most of the airlines changed the FF redemption policies; but I do remember it was ruled that if a FF member earned mileage before the FF change, they were entitled to redeem their miles at the old level if they wanted to.

Hey folks...

If I were Delta, I'd notice it's the same 20 people .....ing on this web-site thread.

I suggest that we all print out this address and hand it out in crown rooms, and on planes to other elites. If we can get a few hundred elites to participate on this site, someone from Delta might listen.

ALSO....I just read that a class action was filed against Alaska Airlines for not refunding non-refunadables....Attorney claims that if the airline is allowed to overbook the flight then they should have to give refunds. Should be interesting to follow.

New L Fares/Upgrades page
 

Just a suggestion... Maybe we should create
a weekly page for the "L Fares/Upgrades"
debate. It seems to be the hottest topic
on this site and I appreciate all the comments you are making but it's tough to
read though the whole section with 50 plus
messages.

What it has done is confirmed somewhat my
reluctance to aim for elite level on Delta.
This has been my biggest gripe with them,
which is why I going United and Continental.

Again just a suggestion. Thank you.

Good suggestion Catman. Maybe people on this thread can also send DL Customer Service the web address for this thread. Not that they might listen but at least they would know that the "no upgrade on L-fares" policy has not been forgotten and is still hotly debated among DL elite members.

You made a good suggestion AusTXHiker, and
maybe I can take it one step further.

Get together a standard letter saying basically to Delta our problems with the
changes in LFare Upgrades and everyone signs
off on it. If we are getting at least two
dozen people unhappy with the changes maybe
that will get Delta's attention. Hopefully.