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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
(Post 12136305)
If high $ passengers existed in large enough numbers to matter, such a tier would exist.
It doesn't. Face it, the subgroup that imagines itself to be so preeiminently valuable really isn't. Last year I had to fly JFK-LHR return 5 times on a work project, in paid J. It was much more worthwhile flying BA and crediting to my Qantas account because paid J is valued 4 times as much as discounted Y, as opposed to 1.5 times on DL. |
Originally Posted by marilyn35406
(Post 12136148)
OK, I'm thoroughly confused.
If I end up, Dec 2009, with 125000 miles, am I DM for 2010? What PMUs will I get in Feb 2010? Under what circumstances do I get the 10 SWUs mentioned above? Can I carry 2009 MQMs towards 2010 status? It's my age, you know:confused: In Feb. when you receive your PM package, you will get one Choice Benefit (CB) as a PM that you could chose to get 4 SWUs. Once the DM program starts (March, April, May???) you get another 2 CB elections that you could use to get another 6 SWUs (for a total of 10) plus another CB. If you have exactly 125k MQM on Dec 30/09 you would start 2010 with 0 MQMs and a PM with the promise of being DM once the program kicks off. However if you have more than 125k MQMs, lets say 135k MQM, then 10K MQMs will rollover into 2010 and you start 2010 with 10k MQM. Clear as mud? |
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
Originally Posted by mdb
And that is exactly what is being done - also knowing that DL does look at this forum - it alows us to say how we feel in a public forum...
I don't think that is what is being done at all. Count up the comparisons to an NW program that no longer exists. Compare that number to the number of comparisons to UA or AA. Does this proportion really suggest that most here are really discussing the alternatives? For Delta -- these are comments from a current and valuable customer base -- a base that when benefits are removed may choose to spend less with Delta. Your earlier comments linking comparisons to benefits provided as recently as this year to pedestrian nostalgia is an affront to other posters. No one knows whether these new options will be optimal for Deltas stakeholders -- but one fact is clear. There is a real precedent of airlines changing frequent flyer policy terms only to later rescind them after key customers walked away and complained in the process: - The elimination of LUT fare upgrades for a period several years ago - The 2 free plat award fee change exception -- this was originally completely eliminated - 500 mile elite minimums on CO and US and others I don't gave time to list from a PDA. |
Originally Posted by cerealmarketer
(Post 12136626)
The comparisons to the NW program are quite valid.
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Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 12136674)
By all means then, I encourage you to choose NW WorldPerks as your FF program in the future. I'm sure that will be a very fruitful choice.
Delta deserves the criticism for acquiring a very solid elite level program and dismantling it in favor of a far less customer-friendly and competitive program. It's amazing what smaller airlines (UA/AA/CO to an extent) are able to offer their "top" customers that the largest airline in the world cannot. |
Originally Posted by TheMoose
(Post 12136715)
You can't on the one hand take the position that comparisons to WorldPerks are invalid because it doesn't exist when on the other hand, Delta was the one to cripple and ultimately eliminate it.
I will say it one last time: I don't care about the past. I think people are wasting their time to look backwards when making future spending decisions. I think people are wasting other people's time by encouraging them to look backwards when making future spending decisions. Waste your own time, I don't care, but I will try to provide balance to those seeking to waste others' time. Am I the only one whose mother told them not to cry over spilt milk? I have already ripped DM for not being competitive with AA and UA on the SWU front. I feel that these are legitimate and useful comparisons, since it provides context for those deciding on a program. Discussion of WorldPerks has as much relevance as discussion of TWA's Ambassador Club (that is what it was called, right?). Besides, I don't accept that DL eviscerated NW's program. All the programs went through changes over the same time period. Was DL responsible for the devaluations in the CO program too? Give credit where it is due: DL is the first to come up with a full slate of real, value-added benefits since then. |
Originally Posted by SomeGuy
(Post 12135630)
Currently at 70,000 MQM. Will hit 75K by the end of August. I was probably going to hit about 95K for the year, so I'll probably end up doing a small MR to get me to 100,000 MQM for 2009. That was I can choose from the Threshold bonus list, and start 2010 with 25K miles. Diamond doesn't do anything for me to get me to find another 25,000 MQM this year.
Edit: I found the answer: "Rollover benefit means Medallion Qualification Miles earned in 2009 above member's earned Medallion threshold level will be rolled over to 2010 and will count toward 2011 Medallion status qualification." |
Originally Posted by redtailshark
(Post 12136424)
Howdy Jeff, thanks for posting here, at least, and providing clarity on future plans.
Unfortunately, this new SM DM level isn't very appealing. It does nothing to make me reconsider having effectively abandoned DL and loading all discretionary/choice travel onto CO this year, and already for half the next. Except for my outbound to the NW farewell dinner at MSP....that must be on a redtail 752. To the business of what your announcements mean for DL and former NW/DL customers... First, I'm sure CO will respond with a more meaningful 4th tier of their own, since now everyone else seems to have one. But even if they don't, it doesn't matter. You see, there are some features of SM that continue to be deal breakers with respect to your desired designation of "best-in-class." Actually knowing how many miles I will need to book a family vacation using award tickets is the be-all and end-all of a FFP. I need this information so that I do not encounter nasty surprises when I try to book what the program promises I can have after a year of high-EQM flying. Such nasty surprises - like the 550k return for J class US-EU tickets, totals that are far above, and are not explicable by, any published SM redemption levels - cause frustration and disappointment when customers want to use their accrued mileage. They will certainly result in defections, frustration with SM and will cost business. Tremendous gouging on EU-origin awards by means of various worst-in-class junk fees is another problem. Talk about making SM almost worthless! DL becoming an AmEx travel club has very limited utility for a number of customers. Take a look at the market to see what happens when a FFP is not good enough to drive custom at the margin. As KL are finding with ES, that an undifferentiated, or marginally differentiated, "J" product can only be sold by incentivizing customers through a good FFP. Historically, ES sales were driven by FD and FB before the program was eroded so badly. Now, nobody cares, so EZ, FR and others are still growing and the legacies are contracting. It's going to happen Stateside too, and already is.... when the marginal value of the legacy product is inadequate to prevent customers booking LoCos like WN for their business travel. In the past, the NW flyers I knew would only do this when they had to...they'd find reasons to fly redtail, and now you know why. NW really did have the best in class FFP and we knew it. It drove our purchasing in powerful ways. Every day when we needed to fly, our first stop was NWA.COM. We'd find ways to make the redtail work for us in spite of schedule/operational shortcomings. The quality of WP and the service of the Elite line was nonpareil. Now, DL.COM is my last stop - after WN, in fact. That's why we drank the red koolaid so avidly. DL does not seem able, or willing (?), to manage to deliver meaningful FFP features like those above - unlike not just NW, but other airlines I have experienced. It's not just us at FT who know these things. Other industry professionals understand well. For example, you might want to listen to Scott O'Leary's take on the utility of DL upgrade instruments like the PMU in his recent webcast interview. He sees things from the customer viewpoint much more clearly than DL SM management seems to. Still... good luck with this...competition is necessary, and I hope DL sticks around. Just like I don't want BA to fail completely. Although my negative opinion of their program is well known, we all need healthy competition. Keep CO's fares low for me :p |
Originally Posted by PMMMDL
(Post 12135901)
The Airlines look carefully at their programs to maximize the programs' benefits to the AIRLINE's bottom line. The airlines are in the transportation business, not the FF program business. |
The bottom line: PM or DM?
Originally Posted by pbarnette
(Post 12134664)
I think that Silver through Plat are very competitive and that this round of changes are net positives for all except for a few Plats that hit 75k exactly and use all 6 PMUs. Sure, not every wish has been granted, but this isn't about DL playing Santa, it is about them offering something that is competitive, and they have done that for Silver through Plat.
.... Jeff - if you are interested in revisiting the Diamond SWU issue, I think you could make a lot of people very happy (whether it makes financial sense, I don't know). (1) Yes- lounge access, it is important for int. flights: PM gets it too (please don't cut it back, thank you) (2)125% miles- Last time I spoiled myself with free travel was in 2005. My father is very happy to take free trips, but since he lives outside of the US/Canada, delta's off-radar taxes added for travel beginning abroad really makes it a clear to the taste (300 dollars taxes where a paid tickets pays 65 dollars? please!) (3) Rollover- that's a good one! but, If I roll above 125 I would role only few miles back to next year. If I would stay below 125, I would virtually begin next year as a gold (short travel to PM). Should I care? Yes, my partner and I wish to begin the expansion of the family and take a 'partial sabbatical' from long travels (she is flying with AA). So, I am actually considering forcing myself to stay below 125 (not use the AMEX, not add any delta flight). If delta would assure that soft-landing would be in place, I would not worry at all. I would keep running those flights... (i.e. DM would not go below PM for the following year,,, ok- not go below GM). (4)Upgrades below Y/B/M- see the note above, Jeff. I can assure you that even 2 certificates on H/Q/K would buy DL alot of good will among the pax. (5) VIP line- the question is whether the basic approach would be ready, willing and able. Holding the plane for 5 minutes, giving the person the chance to change without fee, being TRULY flexible with the client's need. And, not giving us the feeling that you're doing as a favor. With 125 a year, we can be at the 2nd tier in other airline (don't remind my partner, she really wants me to offset some to AA). Jeff- make sure that a diamond is worth a diamond, please. |
Originally Posted by TheMoose
(Post 12136715)
Delta deserves the criticism for acquiring a very solid elite level program and dismantling it in favor of a far less customer-friendly and competitive program.
We have two airlines that were just borderline surviving, in an industry where almost no one makes money, at a time in history when the industry is under massive stress; they combined in hopes that together they could survive, since many felt that alone they would collapse. Yes, I'd like more, and I see some simple areas where they could have greatly improved the offerings, but overall, I think they did much of what they had to if they are to remain a viable entity. I do think the SWU's were not handled well- give me a chance to upgrade one to two int'l HKQ fares a year and I'll give them a couple thousand dollars more every year. |
Originally Posted by BER Flyer
(Post 12136872)
Disagree completely. Especially DL is in the FF business, which is the only positive income DL has. The transportation business is only beeing used to burn the money they make from companys buying Skymilesand paying up front. Without Amex and the other Skymiles vendors DL would be history already.
You may disagree, but your reasoning makes no logical sense. |
Reasons I am disappointed
The things I desire in a FFer program are:
1) Ability to upgrade domestic flights. DL does this fairly well, an A- with the minus only because of the NW issues. 2) Ability to use the miles I am accumulating. I'll give DL a C. If I am flexible, I can usually get an award for 25k domestic, BUT I do have to be flexible and be willing to adjust my travel days. AA gets an A, CO gets an A, and WN gets an A. Those are the only three other carriers I have redeemed awards on, but I did not have to be flexible with those redemptions and they were easily done on their websites. 3) Ability to take my wife and myself to Asia or Europe once a year in F or J while spending < $1000 each. Herein lies my frustrations with the YBM fare limitations on international use of PMU/SWUs. On AA, UA and CO, with 125k EQMs, I wil be able to easily do this. On DL, it is nearly impossible, even at the Diamond level. Those of you who say go elsewhere, that is certainly an option that should be explored. The rub is that my miles balances on AA, UA and CO aren't nearly as hefty as those I have in DL. I am used to doing business with DL and am more comfortable with connecting in ATL, CVG, SLC (and more recently even DTW and MSP) than at DFW, ORD or EWR. I would rather DL see this as a value proposition for both them and me and give the SWUs a second look. If it doesn't work out, then fine, I'll have to make a business decision just as DL has done the same. I just don't understand how the world's largest a/l would position its top FFer level 25% (or more) EQMs higher than the other legacy carriers top level and still not offer a competitive SWU instrument. For those of us who are future DMs, I really don't think this is asking too much. SC access is nice, but let's be honest, most of us who fly >125k miles already have lounge access of some sort. The rollover MQMs are nice as well, but many if not most of the highest mileage flyers don't have issues with needing miles to roll over. So, please run the numbers again, and if it is even close, maybe just this once go the extra mile (no pun intended) for your DMs. |
Originally Posted by jfulcher
(Post 12136329)
:confused: According to what I see DM would have same upgrade priority as EP. So why not axe EP and just maintain DM? Same thing pretty much right?
I would certainly expect it will be the same folks answering the phones for DM and EP in the meantime. David |
Another FTer PMed me and asked how I rated the AA EXP verses DL DM (since I am/will be both)
This is what I wrote: Each airline and program has plusses and minuses. In DL's favor: 1. A better route structure (can fly anywhere in the world more directly, AA is much more limited). 2. Better local service to my home airports (no mainline AA service). 3. No telephone booking fees (now). This will be very important to get SWU upgrades and low mile cost FF Biz seats). 4. Free booze in Skyclubs (membership now free) (food and booze cost in AAdmirals Clubs). 5. Better J class seats (for the new horizontal lie flats). In AAs favor: 1. An international F class. 2. Somewhat cheaper SWU upgrades to J (although the price difference is not as great as some on FT make it out to be). 3. Easier award availability on-line (might just be the screwed-up award calender on delta.com). 4. Better RTW ticket product with One World than Skyteam. That's what I've got off the top of my head. Cheers, PMMMDL Point being, Most everything else between the programs is a wash. Just a few differences in the list of benefits at the top tiers between the programs. |
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