When all of the legacy carriers are losing hundreds of millions of dollars in peak season, I have a hard time saying any one of them is "powerful" even in relative terms.

Hence the reason that some are disappointed with the DM level. I wanted a knocked-it-out-of-the-park level that Delta could market as "best in class" without an asterisk, one that would draw new customers and put butts in the empty seats, one that could restore the carrier to profitability through growth rather than cuts (which never work because of the huge fixed costs).

Instead, I think the program is a conservative one playing to the fears of beancounters and consequently one that is too shallow in the above-100,000 club to draw customers from the other legacy and/or global carriers.

It would not have damaged profitability to allow a DM to upgrade a Q fare to Europe once a year when he goes on vacation with the family by redeeming two SWUs instead of one.

I see you always stick up for DL and are an EP. How many SWU's have you used?? Maybe as an EP you were given them. I hope so and if that program stops and you were just a regular DM would it not bother you that your desire to buy an inexpensive ticket was taken away from the free upgrades? We're not talking tons here, just to the best customers as defined by DL based on EQM.

My guess is even as an EP you were not just given these valuable tools of appreciation for all that money you gave to DL, when you probably had a choice.. If you did and they took them away you would be just as upset as the NW complainers.

One thing about me, I was upset with what DL did and make the decision to move back to AA; being Plat for life surely made it easier but I still did it. I am not one of the people that complain here I give advice and complaints and part of the thread. What DL did to NW is not what they said for "best in class"; so be it, they have and it is done. Time will tell if they jumped over a dollar to pick up a dime.

Well said.

This DM program's rollout is analogous to Jeff flatulating in church but trying to convince the parishners that he was actually singing the Hallelujah chorus from Handel's Messiah.

I would like to ask you a question????

What is the most important thing you receive as a bennie for being EP? Let's say for discussion point that is "Dl gives me a dozen roses for my wife when I land back at home.. She loves them and it makes it easier for me since she wishes I was home more to play with the kids and make it easier since I missed them grow up". (how many of us have missed an event with one of our children?)

For whatever reason, who cares, DL gets bought out by BigJet company out of Ohio and they decide roses are not part of the go forward program.

How would feel about them apples????

Right, I'm sure they'd jump at the chance to do that...

Nice, I like that.;)

I started a thread here a month or two ago proposing exactly that; either two SWU's or one plus some miles (I don't recall what I suggested, maybe 15k each way).

The new program is better for me personally than the old one, but I agree, a bit more effort and they could have hit a home run.

I'm not disputing your opinion about the value of PMUs (now SWUs). Obviously, they are not valuable for everyone...and now they are not a forced bennie. My previous post was meant to say that there is no way that even the most casual visitor to the Delta forum doesn't know what has been "lost" with the demise of WP. It comes up in virtually every thread.

That said, my opinion on PMUs differs...and that's based on my travel patterns. I fly for business; not because I want to or because I particularly relish the thought of taking another two week trip to the Middle East. I have some scheduling flexibility; but; my company will not buy Biz fares for international travel. They do, however; spring for the cheapest refundable/changeable coach fare, which is usually B (sometimes Y or M). Delta is far and away the 600-pound gorilla in my market and thus, is my most convenient and logical choice. Delta can take me to most anywhere I need to go...most notably non-stop to DXB. There is no way I'm flying to DFW or ORD on AA (via RJ) to go to the Middle East; or via IAH or CLT (via RJs). With my discovery of Expert Flyer, I haven't missed a Z upgrade in years. Last year, I dumped 120K miles on international upgrades after all my PMUs were used. So...for me, yes, PMUs are very valuable.

Look, I fully understand that my experience is uniquely mine...YMMV. Delta meets my needs and I would fly them even if there was no SM program (or I guess I could quit my job :rolleyes: ). The SM program is a great bennie for something I have to do anyway; but, my life won't change in any substantial way based on which way the SM wind blows. I simply cannot believe that I am the only SM member in this situation.

So I could b!tch and moan all day long about SM or any other program; but, at the end of the day, my travel life wouldn't change and I'd have nothing but a negative attitude to show for all my bellyaching.

Well, crap, I hate it when some of have to work and all the discussion happens while you are gone. And I am just picking this one thread, of many to state my feelings on the issues. Just my two cents.

First off, I have said for a while that if I were an international flier, I am not so sure that Delta would be my airline of choice. Yes, there are people that are primarily international fliers but I notice a lot of those aren't that dissatisfied with this deal. I mean the real high mileage guys. I won't name names. I think it is more likely that the people that don't like the SWUs are people that fly domestically with maybe some international and want to use SWUs for vacation to Europe and the like.

I would bet a fair amount of money that Delta has studied this YBM upgrade rule for a LONG time. One of my questions, is if they opened it up to all fare classes as many advocate, what happens to the supply of the seats. Well, we know the answer but to what degree, we don't. If they opened to all fare classes, would it just change the complaint from YBM to nothing available. As previously mentioned, I don't travel internationally for work. However, if that changes, you can bet you rear that I the company I work for will pay for at least an M fare or I ain't going. It is about as simple as that. Some companies, and yes I will concede fewer these days, will still pay for a business class fare internationally. The whole point is supply and demand. What is the load factor on these seats. Sure I know some of the seats are going to NRSA but the DOD upgrade should change some of that.

Next point, "priory security access". I think you ought to qualify that a bit. In IND, which is still a current focus city for now for DL/NW, there isn't squat. Nothing. Change it. Sure you don't need it in Pocatello, ID but at any significant airport with significant DL/NW presence get it. Lean on the airport managers if you have to. Surely DL carries enough weight at IND to have some influence.

People overlook the 500 mile minimum. They only look at the negatives and not what could have been. Granted, it isn't anything to get excited over.

Rollover MQMs. I gotta admit, it's interesting and stirring a lot of discussion. My only concern is inflated ranks of members but I am sure Delta doesn't care that much about that.

New Diamond Status. Well, oh well. I am comfortable with the level. I knew it was coming and figured that would be the level. I am behind for the year. I have drawn a couple of sites to work close to and actually haven't been on a plane since May 30 (an 11 year record). It's going to be tough but I do want to make it. And I hear these people say there isn't enough to go after. For me, there is ONE MAJOR FF PERK. Upgrades. And upgrade priority is everything to me. Whatever puts me ahead of the game is where I want to be.

SC Access. This response to this so far has been odd. When they eliminated this benefit a few years ago for PMs there wasn't that much outrage. People just paid the money...at least the typically FlyerTalker. They figured that it was just worth it for the money. NEVER, have I thought it was worth it for the money. I haven't and a SC (then CRC) membership since they were paid. Honestly, I haven't missed it much. Sure there have been a few times that I have had a long connection. But now it's back and that saves $$$ or miles. For those that have been paying, it's pretty nifty benefit. I mean that is money (or miles) not out of your pocket. If I get DM status, I will go back into the SC, otherwise, I am happy without it.

Direct ticketing fees. I wasn't really paying them anyway but it is a descent benefit.

The menu. I am a little worried about this one. Some are going to make the wrong decision and then get pissed about it in the middle of the year.

Upgrade awards. I could have been a LOT of money that we would never see this carry over from the NW program. Some forget that anything that isn't lost is something gained. I think it is horrible from a business standpoint but good for the customer. WHEN? NOW!

Overall, I am OK with it. Yeah, I will try to get DM status...and probably even if it takes a MR to get there. Could it have been better? Well, yeah. They aren't swimming in cash, are they? Could, and should they, have moved away from YMB fares...well I do think Delta could have given a bit on that issue but I am sure there is some pretty good data behind it. You don't have to agree with what conclusions have been drawn with that data but it is what it is.

Would I have just loved to seen something that would just blow away the competition. Sure. BUT, it wouldn't have worked. The competition would have just upped the ante too this industry isn't in a race to set the highest standard in luxury.

So, if someone can tell me a better program to use to fly domestically to most of the states, I am listening. I hear things like AA offers this or that but then that gets balances by DL offers this or that. I just don't see a clear improvement from another carrier.

I appreciate your position and honesty. I believe compared to most of us you are in a unique position; surely not alone but unique.

I would guess if DL did cancel their SM program and you were spending all this money to fly "B" class to DXB and all of sudden the seat in BC was always in front of you and another program (AA, UA, etc) would give a free ride for you up front several times a year and you could use some of those hard earned miles to upgrade, you would take a serious look at another option.

I've been to DXB, one time on a vacation, and I believe that flight in coach would get pretty long and tiring, even compared to the horrible thought of a RJ to ORD, etc.

All in all I'm very pleased with the changes to the 2010 program. Improving benefits in any FFP seems to be a rarity these days and IMO the updates overall are upgrade. So it depends on your perspective. I'm a 95% domestically business traveler and 5% leisure traveler who flies 50-80k/year. No, I'm not a 100k+ traveler so perhaps my perspective is different but here are the most valuable changes for me:

1. Rollover MQMs. This effectively will make qualification more of a rolling process rather than solely calendar year based. If that had been in place this year, I'd already be gold.

2. Waived ticketing fees. That way when the award calendar malfunctions I won't have to pay $50 for privilege of booking tickets for vacation.

3. Choice of Platinum benefits (when I hit 75k later this year). All of my business travel is domestic economy class so I have next to no use for PMUs. And no I don't think DL should give away the plane by allowing fee upgrades from any discount coach fare. I don't hold any illusions about my profitability to DL.

Also realize that 90% of each plane could care less what seats are up front.

I am religiously on Flyertalk and very rarely post :( yes...I'm a lurker...however, I feel this warrants a comment as I believe that I am not the only one in this position:( I will apologize in advance for the length of this post.

I am a LOYAL Skyteam flyer, I like flying in the front and really do not have a desire to fly anyone else. If I were to jump airlines---I would be very loyal to that airline as I am to Delta.

This announcement really places me in a bad position---I have booked travel equating to 123,717 MQM's and do not see the allure to the 4th tier...especially considering the rollover feature---which I really do like! :) Reluctantly, I have to say the feature that I like very much has placed me in a quandary which will most likely result in less Delta flights.

I would much rather mitigate my risk and roll the miles over to next year as no one knows what the future can hold WRT travel. I do know that starting w/ 50k MQM's there is NO chance that I won't make platinum again in 2010. If I happen to have a year that is full of travel---then, I'll make Diamond next year, but I'll make it mid year and still have MQM's to roll over :)

I love flying Delta and am genuinely concerned that other trips might come up that will push me over 125k and I really would rather roll the miles over than be a DM starting next year from ground zero. So, my option is to fly another airline where I will be sitting in the back :( or risk losing platinum status for next year.

It would be great if Delta would allow you the option of realizing the status of the tier that you have achieved or foregoing that status and rolling over the MQM's---allows people to control their own destiny and assume the risks that they are most comfortable with while staying loyal to the airline they prefer. I know that for me...if multiple unplanned trips came about that would put me close to 150k MQM's---then I would gladly accept the DM level and roll over the extra 25k for 2010 start---if only a couple trips happened and I ended up at 128k...I would rather retain my PM and roll over the 53k MQM's. To me, it would be a "win-win" for me & Delta.^ Without worry, I can continue to fly at will on the carrier of my choice!

I really think that Delta has done a great job with promos this year and enticing people to fly that really don't need to take a trip. Speaking for myself and several of my friends, with Delta's promos and fares, I am doing my part to support the Global Economy! In 2009, I will have taken (2) trips to Italy, (2) trips to Spain and a trip to Australia all for vacation! We won't even mention all of the domestic extended weekends. This year, I only have taken less than a handful of business trips and the rest were pure pleasure trips (no double/triple MQM's either) and I am faced with the DM dilemma!

Being the "value hunter" I am...I really wanted to continue to take advantage of all of Delta's promo's as I qualified for the 10/100k promo and double flown miles...but, again...adding extra flights will put me over 125k :-(

If Delta would have provided at least (1) equivalent international RT for any fare (LUT)--that would have probably justified the risk as I have never used one of my PMU's. I like what someone else suggested on the board---they suggested that the # of SWU's should vary depending on fare class---gives people options and choices as to what they value most.

The free Skyclub membership offered with DM is appealing, as I do pay for a membership, yet...my membership expires Feb 1st and then I will have to go w/out access until the Spring when the DM would activate...not sure I like the idea of being w/out SC access for several months---so, that further devalues the benefit of the 4th tier for me.:(

Another ? that I have is with this introduction of the 4th tier---will they still be providing the 100k, 125k, & 150k threshold bonuses for 2009 & if so---do we know if they plan on continuing that in 2010?

Just my two cents...I know that Delta can not please everyone..however, it seems that there are some things that could easily be done to benefit Delta and also show that Delta listens to its customers and allows them the ability to choose the benefits that are most important to them.

Ouch... A bit harsh of a comment, isn't it?!? :eek:

EP upgrade is at top.
To get it initially the "how" is unpublished but appears to be revenue and perhaps even longevity based.