I think this has been a good discussion as we pretty much have deliniated our stance in regards to Buddy Passes, with both sides (I hope) having presented reasonable arguments. I guess I don't have a problem with some sort of buddy pass system, though I am weary about the abuse of such perks, as I have seen them induce abuse in other settings, at the cost of further sticking it to the revenue paxes whether in the form of lost upgrades or higher ticket prices. All I can say is, that if my company was bleeding like Delta, such perks would come under a microscope and go if found to be a cost center, and it still difficult for me to understand how the buddy pass sytem adds to Delta's bottom line, sounds like "fuzzy" math to me!

Maybe it has to do with my misconception of the implication of a "buddy", somehow I was envisioning a 400 pound grits eating pax with 2 suitcases loaded with canned fat-balls!! :D

No, those are the even-more-desirable "Bubba Pass" riders. ;)

Agreed
 

[QUOTE=Flying_Duck. All I can say is, that if my company was bleeding like Delta, such perks would come under a microscope and go if found to be a cost center, and it still difficult for me to understand how the buddy pass sytem adds to Delta's bottom line, sounds like "fuzzy" math to me!
[/QUOTE]

trust me, I am not a DL supporter, but I do feel for their employees.

I think you are right at this point in time DL should revisit EVERYTHING they do. From where they fly, to how they fly, what they fly, rev mgt, SM, HR policies and practicies.... there should be no holy ground... everything should be questioned...

Knowing several of the DL decision makers personally, I can assure that hell freezes over before that happens, but from a corporate survival standpoint your thoughts make sense.

It is my personal belief that you take care of your employees first, as happy employees will in turn take care of your customers better than you can ever legislate or mandate.


PS.. just to clarify.. my 250pds comment referred to a 5'8" blue-eyed blonde, 120 pounds, 2 50 pds suitcases and 30 pds in carry on :D it could happen

Sure it could!, if you flew SAS!! ;)

(I guess you put the 30 pound carry-on in so that you could help her lift it up into the overhead!! :p )

If the pass program doesn't cost Delta anything and it creates goodwill with the employees, I say keep it. As has been mentioned, many employees don't even give out their passes because of the problems that their friends can encounter when trying to use them. I have several friends who are Delta employees who like to give the passes to me because they know I understand the system and will not do anything to embarrass them or get them in trouble.

I've used buddy passes to get to Dublin, Paris, and Istanbul - and I can say two things for sure:

1. It WASN'T cheap - I don't recall the prices, but they seemed higher than what the off-season fares typically are.

2. It WASN'T easy - I don't have heart problems, but there were moments when I thought I did as I waited for them to call my name. There are rarely empty flights, and I'd much rather buy a ticket and board like normal people.

My one beef - I do agree with the posters who have commented about passriders flying in BE International - I, too, feel a Medallion-level pax in the back who has requested an upgrade should get it before a buddy pass rider should. The passriders get the leftover seats since Delta has maintained it's nonsensical policy on not allowing upgrades day-of-travel. I don't think Delta should just fill the remaining seats with any pax...it should be a Medallion who is flying on a qualified fare and is willing to "pay" (miles/cert) to upgrade.

$121 Ow
 

The typical OW fare from ATL to Western Europe is about $121 on a Buddy pass, or roughly $250 RT. Cheap, but no steal given the stress and limitations you have to deal with.

Many experienced non-revs prefer to buy a coach class ticket on ANY airline for $300 to travel confirmed coach rather than dealing with a buddy pass...

OK, no one wants to see "buddies" in BE, but is there that much hatred towards employees sitting there as well?

If your spouse or child worked for an airline and *you* had the opportunity to sit in BE, would it change your opinion?

Would you (or your company) still buy a BE ticket if there was a *chance* for an upgrade? How many folks still buy full F on Domestic routes?

I don't think anybody is directing "hatred" at individuals. What frequent flyers object to is that high value customers who are a source of badly needed revenue for DL are left in coach at times while non-revs sit up front.

To add insult to injury, DL hands out PMUs to "valued" PMs and then won't let those PMs on M fares upgrade same day at the gate when BE isn't full but they will let those same BE seats go to non revs. It is idiotic, and it is such idiotic rules that have helped DL fall to the depths that they find themselves in now.

Sure it is nice for staff and their friends to fly BE sometimes, but I suspect the staff care more about job security and there is a direct connection between the way DL treats its *customers* and the job security that the staff will receive.

If the real frustration is more with the lack of same day upgrades for medallion fliers when no really legitimate reason for the policy has been given, then I can definitely understand the point. It is wrong of the airline to put random friends in the premium cabin on day of travel, and then leave a PM on a Y fare in coach, for example. I have personally flown UAL on a transoceanic segment or two exactly because I could upgrade. I certainly appreciate that United appreciated me.

The Medallion upgrade policy and the buddy pass policy should not be mutually exclusive though.

Welcome to the real world! I've been contributing to my retirement for the past 17 years, seen dramatic rise in health insurance premium cost, had years with no raises, and have survived periods of layoffs being a productive worker. Not to be mean, but the party is over and the clock is striking midnight for the airline industry (pensions, job protection based on seniority,free healthcare, 2 working weeks per month)!

It's not hatred, it's just that we don't like to see people paying $250 for a BE ticket to Europe when we pay $500 to sit in guaranteed coach.

No.

What does that have to do with the Buddy Pass system?


Two comments --

1) If Buddy Passes are profitable, why is there a limit of 8? Delta should be sending boxes of Buddy Passes weekly to employees for them to hand to strangers at every turn.

2) Buddy Pass holders should not be allowed to sit in BE. If you want to use a Buddy Pass, standby for coach. If coach is full and BE is not, upgrade a revenue passenger and put the Buddy Pass in coach.

When you paid "$500 to sit in guaranteed coach," you also agreed to terms and conditions of the ticket you just bought, which probably includes possible methods by which you can attempt to upgrade to a B/E or F cabin, or even whether upgrading is possible on you type of ticket at all. The terms and conditions on your T class fare probably DO NOT say "non upgradeable but if there are still F seats available at departure maybe we will upgrade you anyway." If the terms set forth in your ticket permit upgrades, and you place yourself on the upgrade list, you are going to be cleared before pass riders as we all know. IF you couldnt get on the upgrade list in the first place, it was either because your ticket did not permit upgrades or you lacked the miles / other mediums necessary to PROCESS the upgrade though.

Sounds like your problem is with the upgrade policy of revenue customers, not pass riders. case in point, ATA is on the cusp of adding business class. word here at the airport is that non-revs will NOT be allowed up front EVER...ATA will fill it with paying customers even if they have to draw names out of a hat. But it WILL be filled with revenue pax.

Every airline employee i have talked to so far has no issues with this. simply because ATA is stating this policy from the beginning and sticking to it. fine. Every airline in the country could adopt this method. I'll continue to non-rev everywhere, take my middle seat in coach and be happy with it! seriously!

The option of pass riders to get upgraded after everyone else is not the problem. its deciding what revenue customers have the ABILITY to upgrade and where to draw the line thats the issue.

OK, how about this instead:

2) Buddy Pass holders should not be allowed to sit in BE. If you want to use a Buddy Pass, standby for coach. If coach is full and BE is not, wait for the next flight.

Buddy Passes a Privledge - Says Who?
 

Boy do I agree with that. My sister is retired Delta and the Buddy Passes USED to be a nice perk, notice the past tense. Unless you are flying solo using a BP is just not worth it, especially if you live in a city that Delta has abandoned (i.e. DFW). Anytime you have to connect to another city using BP's forget it, you'll spend all day (literally) at ATL or SLC and maybe you'll get out and maybe you won't. So for those of you who are pining over not knowing someone that can get you a Buddy Pass, let me tell you what a Delta gate agent in MOB calls them...ENEMY PASS. Get the point?
:rolleyes: