New Daytime Flight to CDG
Jun 20, 2023, 2:40 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Mostly living in the basement
Programs: Newly minted free agent; MR LT(!)TE, HH SE, BA SECM, DL MM, UA PS, 2V Fanboi, CBP GE
Posts: 5,110
New Daytime Flight to CDG
As various blogs (including OMAAT, where I saw it posted first) are reporting, DL appears to be adding a new daytime flight from JFK to CDG starting next spring. I'm curious what the forum's thoughts are on this.
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
- The 10pm arrival is very late, unless you're staying at the airport it's at least 11pm before you get to your destination in Paris.
- There will be a small number of useful regional connections possible on the JFK side (nobody is going to fly LAX-JFK-CDG when they could just go LAX-CDG on a longer redeye), and almost no useful connections on the CDG side (except maybe a few late long haul flights). But NYC-PAR doesn't seem to have the same level of O&D as NYC-LON (which otherwise has the same problem). OTOH, this is just one flight a day with 238 seats to server the entire market, whereas LON has four daytime JFK departures (AA, BA, B6, and VS) and two EWR departures (BA, UA).
- Apparently it has been tried various times in the past (including by TWA) but never stuck. In contrast, I can't remember a time when there hasn't been at least one NYC-LON option. (Indeed, DL had scheduled a later daytime flight to follow VS26 but pulled it when the pandemic hit.)
Jun 20, 2023, 3:11 pm
#2
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Auckland, NZ/New York, NY/ATL
Programs: DL DM MM, BIS 2.4MM, EK Gold, SQ Gold, Marriott Gold, HH Gold,
Posts: 5,225
I agree with your points. I can tell you if they use a 767 on this, there is no way in HELL ill go near it with a ten foot pole. The other thing is with the ease of Eurostar, the London directs really allow the better option anyway. Can easily take an earlier night in London, and take a morning Eurostar from LON over to Paris and be there in time for a meeting the next morning anyway. Probably more rested than arriving on at 10pm to CDG.
This also assumes no delays. An hour delay and boom its after midnight before you get into central Paris.
This also assumes no delays. An hour delay and boom its after midnight before you get into central Paris.
Jun 20, 2023, 5:35 pm
#3
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 5,190
As various blogs (including OMAAT, where I saw it posted first) are reporting, DL appears to be adding a new daytime flight from JFK to CDG starting next spring. I'm curious what the forum's thoughts are on this.
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
- The 10pm arrival is very late, unless you're staying at the airport it's at least 11pm before you get to your destination in Paris.
- There will be a small number of useful regional connections possible on the JFK side (nobody is going to fly LAX-JFK-CDG when they could just go LAX-CDG on a longer redeye), and almost no useful connections on the CDG side (except maybe a few late long haul flights). But NYC-PAR doesn't seem to have the same level of O&D as NYC-LON (which otherwise has the same problem). OTOH, this is just one flight a day with 238 seats to server the entire market, whereas LON has four daytime JFK departures (AA, BA, B6, and VS) and two EWR departures (BA, UA).
- Apparently it has been tried various times in the past (including by TWA) but never stuck. In contrast, I can't remember a time when there hasn't been at least one NYC-LON option. (Indeed, DL had scheduled a later daytime flight to follow VS26 but pulled it when the pandemic hit.)
Similarly a day flight to Paris would allow one to fall asleep by 2-3am and wake up around 10am with no jet lag. For someone who can’t sleep on planes and who prefers to work this is a home run.
Last edited by sydneyracquelle; Jun 20, 2023 at 5:44 pm
Jun 20, 2023, 5:55 pm
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
As various blogs (including OMAAT, where I saw it posted first) are reporting, DL appears to be adding a new daytime flight from JFK to CDG starting next spring. I'm curious what the forum's thoughts are on this.
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
As much as I am a huge fan of the LHR daytime flights, I'm skeptical of this one for a few reasons...
- The 10pm arrival is very late, unless you're staying at the airport it's at least 11pm before you get to your destination in Paris.
- There will be a small number of useful regional connections possible on the JFK side (nobody is going to fly LAX-JFK-CDG when they could just go LAX-CDG on a longer redeye), and almost no useful connections on the CDG side (except maybe a few late long haul flights). But NYC-PAR doesn't seem to have the same level of O&D as NYC-LON (which otherwise has the same problem). OTOH, this is just one flight a day with 238 seats to server the entire market, whereas LON has four daytime JFK departures (AA, BA, B6, and VS) and two EWR departures (BA, UA).
- Apparently it has been tried various times in the past (including by TWA) but never stuck. In contrast, I can't remember a time when there hasn't been at least one NYC-LON option. (Indeed, DL had scheduled a later daytime flight to follow VS26 but pulled it when the pandemic hit.)
I agree with your points. I can tell you if they use a 767 on this, there is no way in HELL ill go near it with a ten foot pole. The other thing is with the ease of Eurostar, the London directs really allow the better option anyway. Can easily take an earlier night in London, and take a morning Eurostar from LON over to Paris and be there in time for a meeting the next morning anyway. Probably more rested than arriving on at 10pm to CDG.
This also assumes no delays. An hour delay and boom its after midnight before you get into central Paris.
This also assumes no delays. An hour delay and boom its after midnight before you get into central Paris.
I'm not sure if I really understand you, but are you saying take the overnight flight to LHR and then the Eurostar to Paris in the morning? It's not a bad idea, but the Eurostar is really expensive as you get closer to departure. The lowest rate is only available booked way in advance.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:04 pm
#5
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The RER train into the city from the airport runs until just short of midnight on the weekends? Weekdays I thought it cut out like ten minutes to eleven. Fixed price taxis into the city are not horribly priced, and the cost to get between the airport and Trocadero using Bolt cars seemed like good value compared to what I pay for taxis and Ubers elsewhere and around CDG/Paris.
I am curious to know if it will be possible to take the 6am DCA-JFK flight and make this JFK-CDG flight.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:07 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
The RER train into the city from the airport runs until just short of midnight on the weekends? Weekdays I thought it cut out like ten minutes to eleven. Fixed price taxis into the city are not horribly priced, and the cost to get between the airport and Trocadero using Bolt cars seemed like good value compared to what I pay for taxis and Ubers elsewhere.
For me, this flight is only going to work if I can get on the RER to the city. Although the Metro will likely be closed by then. Although spending the night at an airport hotel isn't exactly a bad idea.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:12 pm
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
If choosing a CDG area hotel for the first night, pick carefully. Too many of the “CDG” hotels only have a paid hotel shuttle, and often that too with very limited hours.
I am usually one to default to taking public transport as much as I can when going to and from airports, but sometimes the best thing at some hours is to use the cars/drivers available for hire that head into town. For 2-4 travelers, it’s not like RER is that cheap anyway from CDG into the city.
Last summer, I manage to get on the last RER before midnight. I can't remember the exact time. They have staff at the station letting everyone know it's the last train.
For me, this flight is only going to work if I can get on the RER to the city. Although the Metro will likely be closed by then.
For me, this flight is only going to work if I can get on the RER to the city. Although the Metro will likely be closed by then.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:15 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
I am usually one to default to taking public transport as much as I can when going to and from airports, but sometimes the best thing at some hours is to use the cars/drivers available for hire that head into town. For 2-4 travelers, it’s not like RER is that cheap anyway from CDG into the city.
I usually lump customs and passport control together. Although my time would have been better last summer because I flew into CDG from AMS.
I usually travel by myself and I don't mind walking or taking transit. I rarely take a taxi even in developing countries like Malaysia.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:29 pm
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
The Sheraton is at the airport indeed, with no need to get exposed to any outdoor weather elements. When I am not using the Sheraton CDG I’ve usually used the Hilton CDG on the cheap when needing to stay at the airport; the latter involves outside weather exposure. [I ran up a full load of nights at the HP/HH CDG this month and last month, but Hyatt is not convenient for these night arrivals at CDG.]
Jun 20, 2023, 6:31 pm
#11
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
The Sheraton is at the airport indeed, with no need to get exposed to any outdoor weather elements. When I am not using the Sheraton CDG I’ve usually used the Hilton CDG on the cheap when needing to stay at the airport; the latter involves outside weather exposure. [I ran up a full load of nights at the HP/HH CDG this month and last month, but Hyatt is not convenient for these night arrivals at CDG.]
Besides Hilton and Sheraton CDG, which other hotel is walkable from the airport? I think I would just spend the night at the airport if I can't take the RER.
Jun 20, 2023, 6:32 pm
#12
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Hyatt uses a paid shuttle with very, very limited hours — hours useless for those intending to take this daytime JFK-CDG flight.
There is also Ibis and Novotel close to the Hilton.
Would DL’s 6am from DCA meet the MCT for doing DCA-JFK-CDG with this flight? [It’s only sort of fun to try to work around the MCT using separately-booked tickets — something I’ve found myself doing more and more often over the years.]
There is also Ibis and Novotel close to the Hilton.
Would DL’s 6am from DCA meet the MCT for doing DCA-JFK-CDG with this flight? [It’s only sort of fun to try to work around the MCT using separately-booked tickets — something I’ve found myself doing more and more often over the years.]
Last edited by GUWonder; Jun 20, 2023 at 6:37 pm
Jun 20, 2023, 8:56 pm
#13
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Santo Domingo, Dom. Rep. / Washington, DC
Programs: AA PPro/DL PLT, PPass, Marriott / Hilton Gold, JetBlue Mosaic, Hertz Presidents Circle, Amex Plat
Posts: 4,631
Passport control should be empty at 10:00 PM, however, baggage delivery at 2E takes long no matter the arrival time. Last RER B departs at 11:50 PM so there should be plenty of time unless the flight is delayed.
I know this varies from company to company, but how do business travel policies normally apply for daytime Europe bound flights?
I'm a regular DCA-JFK 6:00 am flyer, connecting to SDQ at 8:40/8:50, CDG should be within MCT as well.
I know this varies from company to company, but how do business travel policies normally apply for daytime Europe bound flights?
Hyatt uses a paid shuttle with very, very limited hours — hours useless for those intending to take this daytime JFK-CDG flight.
There is also Ibis and Novotel close to the Hilton.
Would DL’s 6am from DCA meet the MCT for doing DCA-JFK-CDG with this flight? [It’s only sort of fun to try to work around the MCT using separately-booked tickets — something I’ve found myself doing more and more often over the years.]
There is also Ibis and Novotel close to the Hilton.
Would DL’s 6am from DCA meet the MCT for doing DCA-JFK-CDG with this flight? [It’s only sort of fun to try to work around the MCT using separately-booked tickets — something I’ve found myself doing more and more often over the years.]
Jun 20, 2023, 9:36 pm
#14
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Atlanta, GA
Programs: DL 3 MM/DM, Marriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Globalist, National Exec Elite
Posts: 4,004
I am enthusiastically in support of this flight. I absolutely hate redeyes. I love the VS daytime flight out of JFK. Am taking it in early August as a matter of fact.
Those bemoaning a 10 p.m. arrival in Europe fail to appreciate that your body clock will be 6 hours earlier. The sun the next morning helps reset things when you actually wake up and open the curtain of the hotel window, instead of attacking your brain when you stumble off a plane after a redeye with four hours of sleep (from JFK to Europe).
Those bemoaning a 10 p.m. arrival in Europe fail to appreciate that your body clock will be 6 hours earlier. The sun the next morning helps reset things when you actually wake up and open the curtain of the hotel window, instead of attacking your brain when you stumble off a plane after a redeye with four hours of sleep (from JFK to Europe).
Jun 20, 2023, 10:02 pm
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,903
Passport control should be empty at 10:00 PM, however, baggage delivery at 2E takes long no matter the arrival time. Last RER B departs at 11:50 PM so there should be plenty of time unless the flight is delayed.
I know this varies from company to company, but how do business travel policies normally apply for daytime Europe bound flights?
I'm a regular DCA-JFK 6:00 am flyer, connecting to SDQ at 8:40/8:50, CDG should be within MCT as well.
I know this varies from company to company, but how do business travel policies normally apply for daytime Europe bound flights?
I'm a regular DCA-JFK 6:00 am flyer, connecting to SDQ at 8:40/8:50, CDG should be within MCT as well.