andrewk829

Excuse me but I need to vent a little, but also see what the FT community might have to say abotu this. On October 19, I was a passenger on DL143 from AMS-SEA, sitting in Premium Select (in 20J, bulkhead window). Behind me was a problematic (female) passenger in 21J, seated next to her husband who was in 21H. The woman in 21J was, I estimate, in her mid-late 40s.

Anyway:

(1) Very shortly after takeoff, I reclined my seat. She was complaining vocally to her husband that "due to the guy in front of me reclining, I'm not going to be able to get out to go to the bathroom". She eventually nudged me and asked me to un-recline her seat so she could get out. This woman was of average build, and given that her husband was next to her, there is no reason she could not exit her seat while I remained reclined, especially in the PS cabin with its extended pitches.

(2) After the meal service, it is conventional behavior on a long intercontinental flights for passengers to lower their window shades. I reclined my seat. There was a window adjacent to my seatback, the "custody" of which was ambiguous as to whether it was "my window" or "her window". To be polite, I turned and asked her, "ma'am, would you mind if I lowered this window shade?". She tersely and angrily replied, with a very serious facial expression, "YES, I WOULD mind".

(3) Ten minutes later, a FA walked down the aisles and announced, "Window shades, please, everybody", and all passengers who had not yet shut their window shades did so, but 21J lady did not. The FA then stopped by row 21 and says to the woman, "Ma'am can you please lower your window shade?" 21J woman says, "NO, I will not do so, I want to keep it open". FA says, "Ma'am, people are trying to get some sleep". Still she refused, and the FA rolled her eyes and walked away.

(4) The next time 21J lady had to get out of her seat, she did not ask me to un-recline, but she did some rattling of my seatback that was far more than "incidental contact". Then this happened again two hours later, and this time, while she was in the process of sitting down, some sort of glassware shattered, and she complained loudly to her husband, seemingly with intent that I would hear, something like, "f***, see, that's what happens!". As though I was acting out of bounds to recline a seat on a 10-hour flight.

(5) I went to the galley and informed the FA about this. I said, "I'm not asking for any specific action from you at this time, but I wanted to inform you that this woman's behavior is bothersome." The FA was sympathetic and said they'd keep an eye on her, and that I should report back if there is any more seat rattling or any other harassment. The FA was extremely kind to me the remainder of the flight, and insisted on giving me pocketfuls of extra snacks.

(6) IN the meantime, the window shade remained open, and as travelers know, all it takes is for one window to be open to expose an entire cabin to unwanted daylight. Finally, maybe 7 hours into the flight, she decides to nap, and of course then she closes the window shade. Because, when SHE wants to sleep, things are different. But, she woke up 90 minutes later, and back up the shade went.

ANYHOW . . . it is a federal offense to ignore crew member instructions. Ignoring a request to close a window shade is probably not a "serious" offense; it's certainly not an affront to safety or security. But it does seem to me that the FAs had the opportunity to rachet things up a bit and play that card. When passengers apay good money for a PS seat, it seems to me they have a right to expect a pleasant experience. Yes, I could have worn eye shades, but I find them uncomfortable and in any case it should not be necessary.

Lux Flyer

�Do You Know Who I Am?�: The Definitive Thread of DYKWIA Stories

Honestly, props to the FA for not escalating this. I get you were upset because you wanted the window shade closed, but there's nothing that requires it, and a FA escalating to "following crew member instructions" would be way overkill.

indufan

Sorry. Why makes your "right to expect a pleasant experience" with the window shade down more important than her right to expect a pleasant experience with it up? The only sympathy you get from me is the ambiguity of whether it was your window or hers.

Skicruiser58

AndrewK829 - I see you were in a bulkhead seat on a 339 - couple of questions for you please.

Did the FA’s turn out lights in the gallery in front of you? Was there a lot of noise from it? How was leg room - asking for my 6’4” husband. I’d like any other feedback you can provide from the experience - here’s hoping I don’t end up with a PIA behind us.


Thanks -

andrewk829

I suppose she has a "right" to have her shade up. But it's not kind to the 27 other people in the PS cabin. A little self-awareness of social conventions and kindness would be a good thing. And, it seems rather audacious to refuse a flight attendant request. I don't think I or most of the people reading this would blatantly refuse an FA request. If shear decency doesn't lead you to comply with a request, perhaps abide by the adage that it is generally not a good move to disrespect people who serve you food and drinks.

andrewk829

Would you ever refuse an FA request and intentionally and knowingly irritate 27 other passengers in the same cabin? This wasn't a 1 PM flight from Atlanta to Miami; in which case the window passenger has and ought to have control over the window shade. But, even in that situation, if both a FA and a neighboring passenger requested me to close it, I would most certainly comply.

andrewk829

(1) As I recall, from the window seat, the galley is barely visible, and most of the time was "curtained off". No light or noise from the galley ever bothered me.

(2) I am 6'0" and had plenty of leg room. Maybe at 6'4" he might be better off not in a bulkhead seat so as to be able to extend his legs well under the seat in front.

(3) This was my first trip for which I opted for Premium Select. I am a fan. A much more "humane" experience than the back of the bus, but not obnoxiously expensive like Delta One.

speede racer

I'm a shades up person; you can sit in a dark room for 8 hours almost any time, but to view the world from 40000 feet is only possible while flying. I've had the opportunity to look out the window from AMS to North American a number of times, but for some this could literally be a once in a lifetime experience!

But yes, my experience can impact others, though probably not 27 others in a meaningful way. I'm most sensitive to the person nearest me (the light can make the IFE hard to see) and I do my best to fly on the 'shady' side of the plane so light is not directly streaming in -- sounds like 21J was on the shady side... I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone trying to sleep in the middle of the day (just slip on those eyeshades, which combined with earplugs do a better job than a dark cabin at inducing sleep for me).

But actually if asked I will lower my shade. I've also had pursers lower the shade while I myself am snoozing or using the lav. I find a lowered shade a kind of one-way street, once the shade is lowered it's very hard, psychologically, for me to open it up again even for a quick peek as we cross Greenland or Labrador. I often feel like the person doing the asking doesn't actually appreciate that I would rather have the shade up, that it is not just some perverse whim or act of passive aggression or 'lack of self awareness'.

Expecting the FA to escalate this to 'not obeying crew instructions' is silly; think instead of 'please sit down and buckle up, we are about to land!'. Probably the best response to a 'problematic' (male or female!) passenger in the sense used in the original post is to be moderately obsequious -- 'yes of course I'll move my seat up when you need to move about the cabin, just let me know...' -- and not to let any other unpleasant interactions get under your skin and ruin the flight for you.

lindros2

my hot take - the woman was a child - maybe a little drunk - and should have gotten a talking to. But de-escalation in 2022 is best.
note that a pilot reamed a pax on my LATAM trip earlier this year for much less... but it was more a scolding and threat and no more.

sbrower

It is not actually a legal requirement to comply with crewmember requests. The law deals with "intimidation" and "threats" and, perhaps more indirectly, "safety issues." Is it normal to lower window shades and socially polite on some flights? Yes. But, in my experience, the person with the window has some right to prefer it open.

sweetsleep

Eye mask?

Grouchy

It's a dayflight that departs at 10h25am. A "Window shades, please, everybody" request just after meal service will make some pax happy and will annoy other pax.
Don't they give out the eyeshades anymore in PS?

emma dog

I hate the window down. I feel claustrophobic after a while. Also I don�t want to sleep on a daytime flight because that makes jet lag worse.

Eyeshades exist to block light. Nothing can give me the light and sense of freedom that a closed window takes away.

HWGeeks

I have when I was 8 years old flying TWA from JFK to PR, FA asked to close the shade so people could watch the movie but it was my first flight ever and I didn't wnat to miss a second of what passed by the window. Maybe it was her first flight, I know it would bother me too but what can we do kill the lady?

_fx

I personally applaud this woman. So sick of entire cabins being forced into darkness during broad daylight, just because a few people are vampires.

Want darkness? Wear an eye mask. Or put a raincoat over yourself and your laptop.