"Turbulence" resulting in no in-flight service
#46
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
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Posts: 14,419
Understood, but the program that the DL pilots use has all that information and then some. Between Delta’s own meteorology department, the dispatchers, and the flight crews, along with all the tools provided to them, this isn’t a lack of resources that is the issue. My point is many times these decisions, while often made on the side of conservatism, isn’t just made because of laziness but because of data presented to them and with safety in mind.*
*not to say laziness may not present itself at times.
*not to say laziness may not present itself at times.
#47
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West of CLE
Programs: Delta DM/3 MM; Hertz PC; National EE; Amtrak GR; Bonvoy Silver; Via Rail Préférence
Posts: 5,384
I was on a CLE-ATL-PHX trip in F on 9/28/22, the same day that Hurricane Ian was about to hit southwest Florida, but was really nowhere near the routes I was flying. The first flight left CLE around 1500. There was no PDB service. As the taxi out to the runway began, the captain came on the horn and ordered the FAs to remain seated and told us not to expect any service (the flight was about 90 minutes long for the 554 miles). We experienced a few bumps for the first 30 minutes or so, but nothing major. After 30 minutes there were no bumps and one could look out the window and see the ground from 35,000 feet. Finally, the FAs got up and passed out warm bottles of Delta branded water and one pass of the snack basket. On the second leg, there was a rushed PDB service, but no drink service for me until 60 minutes into the flight, and the FA's body language indicated that she really didn't want to serve me anything.
This was about as poor a trip as I've had on the Big D in the 38 years it has been my primary airline.
By contrast, my flight AMS-ATL on 10/18 experienced significant turbulence for the first two hours, and then a fair amount of bumps for most of the rest of the trip (9 hours 13 minutes), but the FA service and body language was excellent (even though the food was not good).
Unless I go on an unexpected trip in the next few weeks, my next flight involves Republic CLE-BOS and VS onward to LHR.
This was about as poor a trip as I've had on the Big D in the 38 years it has been my primary airline.
By contrast, my flight AMS-ATL on 10/18 experienced significant turbulence for the first two hours, and then a fair amount of bumps for most of the rest of the trip (9 hours 13 minutes), but the FA service and body language was excellent (even though the food was not good).
Unless I go on an unexpected trip in the next few weeks, my next flight involves Republic CLE-BOS and VS onward to LHR.
#48
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK/STS
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Delta PM, AA EXP, Wannabe SkyWest 1K
Posts: 644
This has nothing to do with turbulence or safety, but rather the labor situation at DL. Similar thing happening at WN, where there is a labor dispute, so the pretzel and water service is often cancelled due to nonexistent turbulence. Meanwhile, I've been on moderately rough OO flights and they've made it through the F cabin 2 times on a 90 minute flight and done the snack basket...with smiles on their faces.
This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.
https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.
https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
#49
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM+(segs)/MM, UA Ag, Hilton DM, Marriott Ti (life Pt), TSA Opt-out Platinum
Posts: 3,227
This has nothing to do with turbulence or safety, but rather the labor situation at DL. Similar thing happening at WN, where there is a labor dispute, so the pretzel and water service is often cancelled due to nonexistent turbulence. Meanwhile, I've been on moderately rough OO flights and they've made it through the F cabin 2 times on a 90 minute flight and done the snack basket...with smiles on their faces.
This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.
https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.
https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
The reality is, service levels (or lack thereof) at other union (US3) carriers is comparable.
#50
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM+(segs)/MM, UA Ag, Hilton DM, Marriott Ti (life Pt), TSA Opt-out Platinum
Posts: 3,227
Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other alts…when there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many “exaggerated” reports.
#52
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK/STS
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Delta PM, AA EXP, Wannabe SkyWest 1K
Posts: 644
Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other alts…when there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many “exaggerated” reports.
My issue with this isn't the lack of service per se, I'll get a snack and a water at the airport to bring on the plane and on DL i can get a couple drinks in at the SC. The problem is the lying and I lose trust in people whose jobs are supposed to be about safety. It makes them look silly and petty. While FAs can demand we "follow their instructions", they can't demand we have any respect for the way they do their jobs. The situation at DL is not resolved, and one of Sara Nelson's top priorities now is to force a vote. She's got many DL FAs listening and I would expect this childish "no service due to turbulence" move to continue.
Last edited by PotomacApproach; Oct 22, 2022 at 9:39 am
#53
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 863
Its far from 100% predictable. Delta has the best tools available and I don’t think they are even at 50%. Turbulence is very dynamic and can change in minutes. At best all you can do is make a good guess.
#54
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wichita
Posts: 628
I realize that meals, etc., are a thing of the past but I, too, have had the turbulence excuse on a completely smooth flight. It is lazy FA's.
#55
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 12
Having worked for many years in flight control (dispatch), I have to ask where you’re getting these stats from? I’d say the TI (turbulence index) predicting tools today are better than they’ve ever been. I don’t doubt as the number of flights has increased, the number or incidents goes up, but on a per unit basis (I.e. per flight hour) I’d be surprised to see a “drastic” increase over time.
Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other alts…when there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many “exaggerated” reports.
Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other alts…when there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many “exaggerated” reports.
#56
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, Hilton, National
Posts: 841
I can see why getting the carts out might not be worth it when they are predicting a lot of turbulence. But last night on a ATL-ORF flight, there was very minimal rough air until the end of the flight, and the FAs stayed seated (or standing in the galley talking) and didn't even serve in F. There was no reason they couldn't have done a quick service in plastic cups, but took the chance to just avoid it altogether. That's frustrating, we had a minimum of half an hour with not a single bump.
#57
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I've never understood the obsession with collecting empty plastic (etc.) cups at the end of a flight, although I suspect it's covered by some broad FAA mandate to collect all service items before takeoff or landing. If drinks are served in plastic during turbulence and FAs suddenly need to be seated, it should be a big deal.
#58
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern California
Programs: United MileagePlus Premier 1K, Delta SkyMiles Diamond Medallion
Posts: 1,150
This is when the geographical (dis)advantage of ATL comes into play, it’s so close to so many places and flight times are relatively short . That , coupled with lazy and indifferent ATL fa’s, and you’ve got the root of this thread .
#59
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: KUSA
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Posts: 1,484
I've never understood the obsession with collecting empty plastic (etc.) cups at the end of a flight, although I suspect it's covered by some broad FAA mandate to collect all service items before takeoff or landing. If drinks are served in plastic during turbulence and FAs suddenly need to be seated, it should be a big deal.
§ 121.577 Stowage of food, beverage, and passenger service equipment during airplane movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.(a) No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land when any food, beverage, or tableware furnished by the certificate holder is located at any passenger seat.
(b) No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land unless each food and beverage tray and seat back tray table is secured in its stowed position.
(c) No certificate holder may permit an airplane to move on the surface, take off, or land unless each passenger serving cart is secured in its stowed position.
(d) No certificate holder may permit an airplane to move on the surface, take off, or land unless each movie screen that extends into an aisle is stowed.
(e) Each passenger shall comply with instructions given by a crewmember with regard to compliance with this section.