DL to restart Berlin
Jul 22, 2022, 1:53 pm
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
I just looked at a random flight JFK->TXL and noticed the last 5 rows of economy being non-bookable. It was a 767-300. Are they already hedging for a smaller plane if demand does not work out? What would be the smaller option for that route? Can a 757 do this flight (I think Delta used it for the STR in the past but sometimes had to add a refueling stop)
As pointed out above, while TXL was a zoo running at a multiple of its designed load, TXL was super efficient. I have not had a chance to fly out of BER yet.
As pointed out above, while TXL was a zoo running at a multiple of its designed load, TXL was super efficient. I have not had a chance to fly out of BER yet.
Jul 22, 2022, 2:12 pm
#32
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Berlin, Germany
Programs: DL DM/2MM, UA PE, HH Gold
Posts: 1,080
Jul 22, 2022, 3:08 pm
#34
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
It's super far out (near the old SXF), with very few direct links on public transit, so from central Berlin it's easily double, maybe triple, the commuting time and also way more expensive if you take a car. It also doesn't have much more capacity than TXL and SXF did combined, which has made many folks wonder what exactly the point was. Long security lines, which of course TXL never had since every gate did its own (until the added side buildings, like for AF/KL, but those served so few gates that they were never an issue).
For me TXL was perfect: super close to the city, easily reachable on public transit, and never a problem with lines or waits. It was not fancy, obviously, but as someone who started going to Berlin in the late 90s a pointed lack of fanciness is exactly what I wanted and expected. Now BER reads like an anodyne, moderately wealthy Northern European airport, its physical distance from the city matched by a total lack of Berlin style/feel in the airport itself.
For me TXL was perfect: super close to the city, easily reachable on public transit, and never a problem with lines or waits. It was not fancy, obviously, but as someone who started going to Berlin in the late 90s a pointed lack of fanciness is exactly what I wanted and expected. Now BER reads like an anodyne, moderately wealthy Northern European airport, its physical distance from the city matched by a total lack of Berlin style/feel in the airport itself.
Well now you've just made me nostalgic for TXL. I mostly just disliked getting trapped in your gate area. The AF lounge was not great, though when it was not busy it was OK except for not having restrooms.
Jul 22, 2022, 3:34 pm
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC/PHX
Programs: IATA, Sabre, AvgeekAgent
Posts: 1,958
I've not checked every date available for sale, but on a few that I did check, the flight is showing premium select for sale and on seat maps. I suspect the seats are blocked for families/groups.
Jul 22, 2022, 4:07 pm
#36
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 223
Jul 22, 2022, 4:18 pm
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
DL only blocks the 2 last rows normally for families.
Jul 22, 2022, 4:58 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC/PHX
Programs: IATA, Sabre, AvgeekAgent
Posts: 1,958
I am certain that JFK-BER nonstop has PS loaded for sale and that it's reflected in the seatmaps. I've not really looked at the number of economy rows blocked on any particular flight..
Jul 22, 2022, 5:13 pm
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
The post we've been discussing is about having 5 rows blocked. I'm guessing its due to not all 763 having PS yet. Since another user states they saw seatmap without PS, there's at least some dates loaded with an unmodded 763.
Jul 22, 2022, 5:44 pm
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NYC/PHX
Programs: IATA, Sabre, AvgeekAgent
Posts: 1,958
Yes, 5 blocked rows and no PS seatmap. Every date for sale currently shows rows 54/55 blocked and shows PS seating. Looks like Mon/Wed flights are also now zeroed out, so things appear to be in flux still.
Jul 23, 2022, 7:06 am
#41
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,601
The 767 and 717 fleet is still VERY fluid right now but its looking like both will be larger than originally planned and for longer.
Jul 24, 2022, 1:26 pm
#42
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta
Programs: Delta Death March, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat, Marriott/Hilton Gold Life
Posts: 1,547
... cheaper than the SkyClub wine++ prices.
Jul 26, 2022, 4:25 am
#43
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL DM/1MM, Natl Exec Elite, Bonvoy Plat, Hyatt Glob, Hilton Diam
Posts: 382
Let's be honest- while Berlin is the political capital and popular with tourists, the economic capitals of Germany remain Frankfurt and Munich. That's not going to change (and neither will the business travellers). And given LH has all its logistics and contracts set up at FRA and MUC, to make yet a 3rd city within Germany a hub wouldn't work.
It was only helped by the Menzies or whoever agent at TXL when she rebooked me for TOMORROW for a 8:30AM flight. I was like... hold up... TWO capital cities in Europe and there's a SINGLE flight a day between the two?! And her non plus response I still hear in my nightmares: "To be fair sir, these are capital cities... in name only. See you tomorrow."
And she's not wrong. DUB and BER are two capital cities with little economic co-interest.
Jul 26, 2022, 11:25 am
#44
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL PM, Bonvoy Gold
Posts: 8,414
Not sure what you mean? There is no SkyClub in Berlin and drinks at airport lounges are included with entrance, and entrance is included in the ticket for business pax or pax with Sky Team Elite+ status.
Jul 26, 2022, 1:37 pm
#45
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Atlanta
Programs: Delta Death March, Hyatt Globalist, IHG Plat, Marriott/Hilton Gold Life
Posts: 1,547