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-   Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles-665/)
-   -   What to do with miles when someone dies... ? (Definitive Thread) (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/2065070-what-do-miles-when-someone-dies-definitive-thread.html)

GUWonder Mar 25, 2013 12:04 am


Originally Posted by us2 (Post 20476620)
This policy change is reprehensible and it should be reversed.

A word of lawyerly caution to those who are maintaining that they could simply log into the deceased member's account and redeem miles that way is in order here, though.

While each state's law regarding theft is different, I could see a situation here where someone gets caught and faces potential criminal liability for theft. At a minimum, it would seem that there's at least the potential for Delta to take civil action to recover the cost of the redeemed flights. The theory that this might constitute theft is the use of what are technically non-existent miles to obtain something of value. While Delta may not want the bad PR associated with suing or prosecuting over this, it is worth bearing in mind. And because of the value of airline tickets, this isn't petty theft; it's theft that probably exceeds the threshold for being prosecuted as a felony.

I'd tread very carefully with this. No airplane trip is worth a criminal conviction and putting the pieces together to prove what happened after the fact would be quite easy to do once you've established the time of the member's death and the fact that redemptions occurred subsequent to that death.

Is DL going to bribe or lobby a prosecutor to pursue charges against a widow(er) or orphans using the account of their relative as the relative explicitly wanted done upon the death of such relative? They better hope their target is a juvenile subject to a non-jury trial for otherwise it is probably going nowhere even if a DA/ADA/USA(A) were to take what DL were to give as part of influence-peddling. This may be not much different than mailing off already signed checks from a deceased person as ordered by the person, prior to their death, to be done upon their death.

If DL decided to take this into a civil litigation matter, discovery could get very interesting and end up not working out for DL.

MikeMpls Mar 25, 2013 2:23 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 20477352)

Originally Posted by us2
This policy change is reprehensible and it should be reversed.

A word of lawyerly caution to those who are maintaining that they could simply log into the deceased member's account and redeem miles that way is in order here, though.

While each state's law regarding theft is different, I could see a situation here where someone gets caught and faces potential criminal liability for theft....

Is DL going to bribe or lobby a prosecutor to pursue charges against a widow(er) or orphans using the account of their relative as the relative explicitly wanted done upon the death of such relative? They better hope their target is a juvenile subject to a non-jury trial for otherwise it is probably going nowhere even if a DA/ADA/USA(A) were to take what DL were to give as part of influence-peddling. This may be not much different than mailing off already signed checks from a deceased person as ordered by the person, prior to their death, to be done upon their death.

If DL decided to take this into a civil litigation matter, discovery could get very interesting and end up not working out for DL.

I think it will be a lot more subtle than either scenario, e.g. a pending itinerary will be forced to require a manual check-in at the counter (not necessarily on the outbound), and you won't be going anywhere until you whip out your credit card and ante up. RPU (Remember the infamous Revenue Protection Unit? They still exist. :D ) will figure out an angle for working these cases.

One scenario I don't think anyone has brought up yet: What happens when your estate's personal representative or executor himself, duly appointed by the local probate court and thus authorized by the court to conduct your affairs after your demise, logs in to your account and starts spending your miles? That could get interesting.

dworsky Mar 25, 2013 4:32 am

Trying to stir up public awareness (and outrage) about Delta's policy change is this story from MousePrint.org and WCPO-TV:

One Way Fare to Heaven Gets Costly for Delta Frequent Fliers

redtop43 Mar 25, 2013 5:06 am

Just my 2 cents.

This is certainly an emotion-grabbing issue, but to me, not as significant day-to-day as things like the award calendar.

I would not envy the DL lawyer who had to explain to a court why Jane, whose husband John bought miles from DL and was run over by a truck crossing the street 5 minutes later, wasn't entitled to the miles because they never belonged to John in the first place. As the judge, I'd really want him to explain to me just what John paid his money for.

I don't personally recall any instance of a criminal prosecution for miles misuse, and I doubt any district attorney is going to look at a major airline and say "Sure, I will use the resources of my office to leverage your business practices." I think if I were a cop or district attorney, and DL tried to swear out a complaint, I would say "Sorry, I have jaywalking tickets to proscecute."

Airlines can be pretty stupid, but will they really be stupid enough to prosecute widows/widowers for using their dead spouse's miles? At the same time, I would not want to see an article that said "RedTop, who has accumulated 4 quadrillion SkyMiles by a complicated and convoluted series of sham financial transactions involving credit cards that he only kept for a week, and money laundering among 4 banks and Walmart, was charged $600 by Delta for using his father's Skymiles number and password to use miles that had reverted to Delta on his father's death."

Gargoyle Mar 25, 2013 6:26 am


Originally Posted by sbjnyc (Post 20476756)
Try changing your computer's system date and print the PDF into a new one.

Nope, didn't work. The file is only 36k, so perhaps it was already just a placeholder when I downloaded it.

Did anyone else save a copy of the affidavit?

dedehans Mar 25, 2013 6:53 am


Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter (Post 20476286)
... And DelCorpGuy (whatever your real name is)

Clearly, I am disturbed by your latest attempt to disadvantage the FF community. But I had an experience to day that accentuates my disgust for your latest ploy.

The DL FF flyer community is diverse.

Obviously, there are some who give little thought to their mortality. I understand, I was once 20 years old too.

Others of us, a bit older, have a more profound sense of our mortality. Mine came a few years ago when I was in the emergency room of the hospital and the attending physician said, literally "First, we are going to stop your heart. Then, if everything goes well, we'll restart it." Now, my daily reminder is the medication that I take twice a day.

Today, I was reminded that that I was one of the fortunate ones. On my flight into SFO there was someone who was clearly in the midst of a chemotherapy regimen... bandana on her head to conceal the loss of hair and surgeon's mask to avoid infection.

This reminded me that there are many people who likely count their remaining days based upon their doctor's prediction.

Granted, this lady's presence in FC does not guarantee that she has a large SkyMiles account that she would like to pass on to someone else when she expires. But, certainly, there must be many in similarly situations who do... and, as they prepare their affairs for their passing, they are likely unaware that you have pulled the rug out from under them.

What have you done to make people aware of your self-serving, craven policy change? You have trotted out a minion to make a vague announcement here of the fact, without any detail. You have yet to make any announcement on your web site.

You are little men whose inaction demonstrates your lack of worth.

How many of you have the manhood to sit down with a group of terminally ill FF members to explain to them the "necessity" of the policy change that you have implemented?

For obvious reasons, I doubt that any of you are willing to do this.

For common decency, reverse this policy change. Do you really need to do this to make the profit that you desire? Are you truly that shallow?

Delta is a wonderful airline with a proud heritage. You are doing the airline, and its employees, a grievous disservice.

You should be ashamed our yourselves.

I agree. Delta should be ashamed of itself.
I was much moved by PBJAGs story about her 90 + year old mother planning to give her mileage to her grandchildren so that they may attend her funeral services when that day comes. Delta, what you are doing is mean.

holtju2 Mar 25, 2013 7:21 am


Originally Posted by Gargoyle (Post 20478176)
Nope, didn't work. The file is only 36k, so perhaps it was already just a placeholder when I downloaded it.

Did anyone else save a copy of the affidavit?

I have it saved on my server. You can access it here.

sh00t3r Mar 25, 2013 11:02 am

Funny how this has pushed me over the edge more than anything else. It's not the lack of low tier award options, or the complete devaluation of the program everywhere you look. It's not even the MQD or lack of any official Delta response regarding our complaints.

It's the fact that this is Delta/Richard Anderson standing in front of their entire customer base, and giving them the middle finger. When a company makes unethical legal decisions or opinions like this, it's time for me to start thinking about why I'm loyal. Very disappointed.

spc354 Mar 25, 2013 4:14 pm


Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter (Post 20453971)
"Today, Delta Airlines is announcing an enhancement in our policy with respect to transfer of SkyMiles. Effective March 20, 2013, we will no longer permit the transfer of mileage from the accounts of deceased members to their heirs. It has increasingly come to our attention that some members were accumulating large account balances, and then killing themselves on order to avoid the transfer fees normally involved in the transfer of miles from one account to another. It became necessary for us to stop the abuse by these gamers so that we could protect the value of the SkyMiles program for our most loyal members. This was a difficult decision to make, but it was the right decision."

+1

udontknowme Mar 25, 2013 5:27 pm


Originally Posted by Gargoyle (Post 20476623)
I d/l'ed a copy a few days ago to archive it, now when I try to open the pdf it opens a page that says "file can not be found". They must have set an expiration date on the pdf so it wiped out.

This their vaunted IT team can handle ---- the promised award calendar fix, not so much.

Do Skymiles of brain-dead Delta executives expire?

And condolences to the family (and sorry about the Skymiles you aren't getting) of DwayneSkyMiles who must surely have passed on, having not returned here to explain or defend the policy.

StayingHomeIsBetter Mar 25, 2013 8:31 pm


Originally Posted by dworsky (Post 20477845)
Trying to stir up public awareness (and outrage) about Delta's policy change is this story from MousePrint.org and WCPO-TV:

One Way Fare to Heaven Gets Costly for Delta Frequent Fliers

How do you get a video like this onto Youtube?

Another good link:

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/deltap...they-are-gone/

StayingHomeIsBetter Mar 25, 2013 8:33 pm

To save someone the trouble of searching:

Richard Anderson
Chief Executive Officer
Delta Air Lines, Inc.
P.O. Box 20706
Atlanta, Georgia 30320-6001

seancho Mar 26, 2013 12:03 am

Well, how interesting to find this thread. I just signed up to flyertalk to check in with the Delta Skymiles community after 'inheriting' a quarter-million miles from my father, who passed away in December.

My sister and I just assumed that the miles were not transferable, so we accessed his Delta account and booked tickets to attend his memorial service. I guess if we had called and asked, we could have had the miles transfered to us back in Dec. But not now.

Somehow I don't feel too guilty about using Dad's Delta miles, and I don't think I'll be alerting Delta as to his death. If they come after me, you can count me in as a test case defendant, or lawsuit plaintiff.

USirritated Mar 26, 2013 12:09 am


Originally Posted by StayingHomeIsBetter (Post 20482710)
To save someone the trouble of searching:

Richard Anderson
Chief Executive Officer
Delta Air Lines, Inc.
P.O. Box 20706
Atlanta, Georgia 30320-6001

And for anyone who wants it, and does not already have it, send me a private message if you would like the direct e-mail address for Richard Anderson (he gave it to me himself, personally).

USirritated Mar 26, 2013 12:11 am


Originally Posted by seancho (Post 20483483)
Well, how interesting to find this thread. I just signed up to flyertalk to check in with the Delta Skymiles community after 'inheriting' a quarter-million miles from my father, who passed away in December.

My sister and I just assumed that the miles were not transferable, so we accessed his Delta account and booked tickets to attend his memorial service. I guess if we had called and asked, we could have had the miles transfered to us back in Dec. But not now.

Somehow I don't feel too guilty about using Dad's Delta miles, and I don't think I'll be alerting Delta as to his death. If they come after me, you can count me in as a test case defendant, or lawsuit plaintiff.

Sorry about your loss. Good that you and your sister were able to make use of the miles and did not call DL to ask. Kudos to you for volunteering as a test plaintiff or defendant, if it should come to that.


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