Taking a Pause on Delta
Aug 25, 2021 | 3:54 pm
#46
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: On the run
Programs: DL 2MM/DM, Hilton LT Diamond, Hyatt Globalist, Marriot Titanium
Posts: 1,274
I'm with the OP, as Delta extending status for an other year was a slap in the face to me considering I re-qualified for DM early July 2021. It is apparent to me that Delta would prefer to have a glut of PM/DM that will buy up for FC, as neither AA/UA have extended status again this year. I have also moved onto United and status matched challenged to 1K. Even as a lowly silver prior to 1K, I was over 90% upgrades on United, as Delta upgrades as a DM has fallen for me since the April travel surge (from 95% to 85%). As I live in a non-hub airport, 90% of the time I'm connecting, as a majority of the United hubs except for EWR have a Centurion Lounge which I prefer over the SkyClub. I have the JPMorgan Reserve card as United Club access is an unlisted benefit. Only UA lounge that has been packed so far has been EWR, as IAH and ORD have been calm. Way too much SkyCLub access via the AmEx Centurion, Platinum and Delta Reserve, that the clubs are packed now.
Aug 27, 2021 | 7:22 am
#47
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: DL MM GM, AA Plat Pro, UA Silver, EI Silver
Posts: 2,158
For me, the difference is that I've neither vowed never to fly them again nor given up after a single poor experience, as my Delta account reflects. The problem is, for now, that their ops, and to a lesser extent service, just aren't where they should be, at least on the routes I'm flying. And, more to the point, they are not as good as United at "service recovery" during IROPS. I base this on a large handful of personal data points.
Again, Delta remains a friendlier, "fresher" experience than UA. But United, for its relative coldness/worse entertainment/lack of inspirational/self-congratulatory pre-safety videos, seems to show more hustle, especially when things are delayed.
Again, Delta remains a friendlier, "fresher" experience than UA. But United, for its relative coldness/worse entertainment/lack of inspirational/self-congratulatory pre-safety videos, seems to show more hustle, especially when things are delayed.
This is different - it's systemic and deliberate.
My "pause" point arises on almost the same route as you - DCA -> TUS instead of PHX, but same lousy options in IRROP. After declining the 2-hop alternative I opted for a later 1-hop route but am now overnighting in SLC owing to lack of options upon yet another delay.
But hey, weather happens, and things pile up.
What is unacceptable is the level of service on a $1k first-class ticket - drink cart wheeled through the aisles with plastic cups and FA shoveling the ice into the cups, "dinner" as a plastic-wrapped sandwich in a paper box. Which airline now provides crockery, cutlery, glassware and hot food? Because they're the ones I'm going to fly.
Aug 27, 2021 | 9:39 am
#48
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,856
I too have slowed down my Delta flying this year. They've dropped from my number two to my number three airline behind United. The IT issues really, really annoy me. If I have to cancel a United ticket I can do it on their app or their website in 30 seconds. If I have to cancel a Delta ticket I end up on hold for over an hour. That and the fact that they've come back to inflight service so slowly has left a bad taste in my mouth. Luckily I haven't had any major operational issues on them though. We'll see what next year brings.
Aug 27, 2021 | 11:35 am
#49
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, DL Platinum
Posts: 649
I'm with the OP, as Delta extending status for an other year was a slap in the face to me considering I re-qualified for DM early July 2021. It is apparent to me that Delta would prefer to have a glut of PM/DM that will buy up for FC, as neither AA/UA have extended status again this year. I have also moved onto United and status matched challenged to 1K. Even as a lowly silver prior to 1K, I was over 90% upgrades on United, as Delta upgrades as a DM has fallen for me since the April travel surge (from 95% to 85%). As I live in a non-hub airport, 90% of the time I'm connecting, as a majority of the United hubs except for EWR have a Centurion Lounge which I prefer over the SkyClub. I have the JPMorgan Reserve card as United Club access is an unlisted benefit. Only UA lounge that has been packed so far has been EWR, as IAH and ORD have been calm. Way too much SkyCLub access via the AmEx Centurion, Platinum and Delta Reserve, that the clubs are packed now.
The only caveats are (a) getting from the mainline United gates (C/D) to B can be a 20-minute, calorie-burning schlep, and (b) I base this on pre-pandemic experiences. I don't know what's currently open/operating, and the European carriers may have stricter health protocols than the U.S. ones. (LH, for instance, is requiring KN95 masks, while the U.S. carriers would settle for people wearing their cloth masks over their noses.)
Aug 27, 2021 | 11:46 am
#50
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, DL Platinum
Posts: 649
Don't fall for "United is better operationally" hook, line & sinker just yet. Here are a few points:
1. United is struggling to get flights out on time just like DL because their hubs do not have enough workers for below-the-wing functions like getting fuel to the plane, bags loaded, cargo loaded, or catering.
2. Speaking of catering...United is switching catering companies by October. This means the current caterers are basically doing a "work stoppage" and several hubs are having a hard time getting flights catered. IAH is the worst. Several flights are going out with no catering which means you're lucky to get a bottle of water in first class.
3. Upgrades on United are much harder to come by this year. As a 1K I'm batting around 30% (haven't tallied the numbers recently). This is, by far, the worst I have ever done as a 1K, even before the pandemic. And this cannot be blamed on "fewer flights, fewer seats". This summer every United flight I'm on has solicited for volunteers because they are 100% booked.
Fly the airline with the right schedule and price because at United you can forget upgrades (as a Plat, which is what I assume you would be if you did a status challenge/transfer) and will be just as frustrated with delays and cancellations. Yes, I think UA has far better IT than DL though. The app is generally superb.
-RM
1. United is struggling to get flights out on time just like DL because their hubs do not have enough workers for below-the-wing functions like getting fuel to the plane, bags loaded, cargo loaded, or catering.
2. Speaking of catering...United is switching catering companies by October. This means the current caterers are basically doing a "work stoppage" and several hubs are having a hard time getting flights catered. IAH is the worst. Several flights are going out with no catering which means you're lucky to get a bottle of water in first class.
3. Upgrades on United are much harder to come by this year. As a 1K I'm batting around 30% (haven't tallied the numbers recently). This is, by far, the worst I have ever done as a 1K, even before the pandemic. And this cannot be blamed on "fewer flights, fewer seats". This summer every United flight I'm on has solicited for volunteers because they are 100% booked.
Fly the airline with the right schedule and price because at United you can forget upgrades (as a Plat, which is what I assume you would be if you did a status challenge/transfer) and will be just as frustrated with delays and cancellations. Yes, I think UA has far better IT than DL though. The app is generally superb.
-RM
I do see that upgrades on UA look awful. A couple times, I've booked an award ticket on United as a backup to a DL revenue ticket, and I've canceled the award tickets both times because I got upgraded on DL -- and pretty early, too -- while I was halfway down the 10-50-person UG list on United with 1 seat left in First.
My theory for the sell-out of F is two-fold:
- The carriers are selling first-class fares for less, given the lack of business travel, so affluent leisure travelers are finding the prices tolerable, and
- More significantly, a lot of well-off travelers have decided they're willing to fly, albeit reluctantly, but only with personal space. Even if people aren't that concerned/scared of covid-19, I think the past year has instilled in people a stronger aversion than ever to being in physical contact with strangers. And, since flying coach often means literally touching shoulders with one or two seatmates, I imagine a lot of affluent-but-not-rich flyers -- especially those who are older -- have decided, "To hell with it; I'm not doing that," and paying the $100-300 more each way for First. I know my own parents would do so. So F sells out while Y is two-thirds empty.
Aug 27, 2021 | 12:29 pm
#51
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern California
Programs: United MileagePlus Premier 1K, Delta SkyMiles Diamond Medallion
Posts: 1,559
I'm with the OP, as Delta extending status for an other year was a slap in the face to me considering I re-qualified for DM early July 2021. It is apparent to me that Delta would prefer to have a glut of PM/DM that will buy up for FC, as neither AA/UA have extended status again this year. I have also moved onto United and status matched challenged to 1K. Even as a lowly silver prior to 1K, I was over 90% upgrades on United, as Delta upgrades as a DM has fallen for me since the April travel surge (from 95% to 85%). As I live in a non-hub airport, 90% of the time I'm connecting, as a majority of the United hubs except for EWR have a Centurion Lounge which I prefer over the SkyClub. I have the JPMorgan Reserve card as United Club access is an unlisted benefit. Only UA lounge that has been packed so far has been EWR, as IAH and ORD have been calm. Way too much SkyCLub access via the AmEx Centurion, Platinum and Delta Reserve, that the clubs are packed now.
Aug 27, 2021 | 1:34 pm
#52
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Huntsville, AL
Programs: DL DM 2.017 MM, Hilton Life Diamond, IHG Diamond, Avis CHM, Marriott Titanium (life gold), AA Gold
Posts: 8,052
My theory for the sell-out of F is two-fold:
- The carriers are selling first-class fares for less, given the lack of business travel, so affluent leisure travelers are finding the prices tolerable, and
- More significantly, a lot of well-off travelers have decided they're willing to fly, albeit reluctantly, but only with personal space. Even if people aren't that concerned/scared of covid-19, I think the past year has instilled in people a stronger aversion than ever to being in physical contact with strangers. And, since flying coach often means literally touching shoulders with one or two seatmates, I imagine a lot of affluent-but-not-rich flyers -- especially those who are older -- have decided, "To hell with it; I'm not doing that," and paying the $100-300 more each way for First. I know my own parents would do so. So F sells out while Y is two-thirds empty.
That's a lot of FC seats being sold!
David
Aug 27, 2021 | 4:42 pm
#53
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: Fallen DL DM (PM) 2MM
Posts: 4,783
Add me to the list of DL pausers.
I was looking to book an open jaw in J -- into BRU and out of BER in October. Delta has suspended service to those cities -- that is fair. But it means flying into AMS or CDG and taking a train -- which also means another country's COVID paperwork. OK, doable.
But the AF and KLM flights out BER to connect to LAX leave at 6am, which probably means staying at an airport hotel the night before. Again, doable. Also looked at returning from FRA -- four hour train ride and lose most of day in Berlin.
One time when searching on Google Flights I didn't check the "Sky Team" box and lo and behold a UA routing came up $1000 - $1500 less than DL (this is out of my pocket) lie-flats all the way and reasonable flight times. So I strayed and booked on UA. An added bonus is avoiding the mess at LAX T2
Maybe I'll like it, maybe I'll hate it -- we'll see.
I was looking to book an open jaw in J -- into BRU and out of BER in October. Delta has suspended service to those cities -- that is fair. But it means flying into AMS or CDG and taking a train -- which also means another country's COVID paperwork. OK, doable.
But the AF and KLM flights out BER to connect to LAX leave at 6am, which probably means staying at an airport hotel the night before. Again, doable. Also looked at returning from FRA -- four hour train ride and lose most of day in Berlin.
One time when searching on Google Flights I didn't check the "Sky Team" box and lo and behold a UA routing came up $1000 - $1500 less than DL (this is out of my pocket) lie-flats all the way and reasonable flight times. So I strayed and booked on UA. An added bonus is avoiding the mess at LAX T2
Maybe I'll like it, maybe I'll hate it -- we'll see.
Aug 27, 2021 | 5:11 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West LA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 957
Delta flies where I need/want to fly non-stop, and with KL/AF, one stop to most of the world I can currently fly to, and with KE, the other part of the world that hopefully in the future I can fly to again. I haven't had one bad experience/irrop on the 52 flights on dl/kl/af I've been on since the pandemic began. Airplane food is trivial to me, as it's never something I looked forward to prior to covid-19. Upgrade me to first domestically, and I'm happy.
Aug 27, 2021 | 10:16 pm
#56
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: Fallen DL DM (PM) 2MM
Posts: 4,783
I may be too old to learn a new language (I still catch myself using NWA-isms ) and in my four legs I think there are four different J configurations. On three I managed to get single seats but the last leg (EWR-LAX) is 2-2-2 in J, so I *could* have somebody next to me.
Aug 27, 2021 | 11:15 pm
#57
Join Date: Dec 2011
Programs: DL MM GM, AA Plat Pro, UA Silver, EI Silver
Posts: 2,158
Delta flies where I need/want to fly non-stop, and with KL/AF, one stop to most of the world I can currently fly to, and with KE, the other part of the world that hopefully in the future I can fly to again. I haven't had one bad experience/irrop on the 52 flights on dl/kl/af I've been on since the pandemic began. Airplane food is trivial to me, as it's never something I looked forward to prior to covid-19. Upgrade me to first domestically, and I'm happy.
Aug 28, 2021 | 4:36 am
#58
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West LA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 957
Why would I pay for F when I'm at 100% upgrade since the pandemic began? I've paid for international J twice, well upgrade certificate on departure and paid J on the return. I'm quite happy.
Aug 28, 2021 | 6:38 am
#59
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 153
For us, the best thing we are doing is moving from Minneapolis to East Tennessee. This will take us away from having to rely on Delta as it is the dominant airline in this market. I am platinum, and will have flown enough this year to be Diamond by November for next year. Tons of work, but also travel fo fun and 95% on Delta. I am so tired of their lack of service and rude flight attendants. But the biggest problem is what many people have said is the IT issue. Having to wait multiple hours to make a tiny change or cancel a flight is ridiculous for platinum members. I get the employee shortage, but then fix the IT stuff. Will be so nice to be able to just find the best flight from Knoxville next year based on price or convenience - and the flights we have checked out this year to see how much it will be ALWAYS are cheaper from Knoxville than a non-stop from Minneapolis!
Aug 28, 2021 | 6:39 am
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,810
Exactly. When F becomes upgrade class the product suffers badly.