JFK-SFO DeltaOne is Not Competitive

Old Mar 16, 21, 8:42 am
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JFK-SFO DeltaOne is Not Competitive

With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive. I'm going to NYC a lot more now that COVID's winding down and haven't booked a flight on DL in spite of being a PM. Any plans to upgrade or at least go to 1-2-1 like JFK-LAX?
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Old Mar 16, 21, 8:52 am
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Originally Posted by PotomacApproach View Post
With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive. I'm going to NYC a lot more now that COVID's winding down and haven't booked a flight on DL in spite of being a PM. Any plans to upgrade or at least go to 1-2-1 like JFK-LAX?
Seems like the only aircrafts that would fit the bill would be 767, a330, and a350. In my experience, they usually ran 767s during peak periods between SFO/JFK--and even then, it was maybe once or twice per day, at most. A lot of tech companies (e.g., Apple) likely have contracts with UA, so they're likely going to be put on UA. Even now, with so much of tech moving out of SF/Bay Area due to COVID and work-from-home policies, it seems that there would be less demand out of SFO than in past years. Even in cases of LA/NY market, Hollywood folks would likely fly in AA F because their union contract (SAG-AFTRA) allows them to fly in the most premium cabin possible.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 9:06 am
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The D1 soft product is suffering as well. Moreover, when AA reopens its Flagship Lounges and UA, it's Polaris Lounges, DL faces an on-ground problems with its sole lounge offering,

It's all going to come down to pricing. and frequencies (until those ramp back up).
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Old Mar 16, 21, 10:20 am
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With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive.
I'd argue that the 757 isn't competitive, but it's better than AS's transcon (truly not competitive). UA will be flying a better plane, but with its own problems - EWR is a less appealing airport than JFK, and if UA ever does make it to JFK, they'll be in T7 sharing the Alaska lounge with no connectivity.

Moreover, when AA reopens its Flagship Lounges and UA, it's Polaris Lounges, DL faces an on-ground problems with its sole lounge offering,
UA offers Polaris Lounge access on transcons? My impression was that UA only offered Polaris Lounge access for international flights.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 11:02 am
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Originally Posted by PotomacApproach View Post
With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive. I'm going to NYC a lot more now that COVID's winding down and haven't booked a flight on DL in spite of being a PM. Any plans to upgrade or at least go to 1-2-1 like JFK-LAX?
not to mention that none of those three compare to Mint, aside from the lounge availability.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by PotomacApproach View Post
With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive. I'm going to NYC a lot more now that COVID's winding down and haven't booked a flight on DL in spite of being a PM. Any plans to upgrade or at least go to 1-2-1 like JFK-LAX?
I think in terms of hard product, the apt comparison between AA and DL is the J cabin, not AA F. In that regard, the hard product is essentially identical between DL's 757 and AA's A321T. Soft product-wise, I do think, despite Delta's better overall branding and image, AA offers a higher quality onboard transcon product in business class than Delta.

Originally Posted by steveholt View Post
UA offers Polaris Lounge access on transcons? My impression was that UA only offered Polaris Lounge access for international flights.
You're correct. UA only offers United Club access to its transcon J passengers. Polaris is only for international.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 11:31 am
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Originally Posted by steveholt View Post
EWR is a less appealing airport than JFK
Is it really? Most of the time I am not ultra time-sensitive going to NYC but the last time I was, I picked EWR because of how fast I could be in Penn Station after the flight.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 11:52 am
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Originally Posted by indufan View Post
Is it really? Most of the time I am not ultra time-sensitive going to NYC but the last time I was, I picked EWR because of how fast I could be in Penn Station after the flight.
I think you can make a case that EWR might be better in some cases, but there's a reason that UA had a big campaign in NYC over the last few years trying to convince folks EWR is closer. At the very least, the perception is that JFK is a better option, and that's going to influence purchasing.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 12:07 pm
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All the more reason to not become captive to one carrier. Evaluate what is important to you, e.g. hard & soft product, price, schedule, and airport. Make a choice based on the factors affecting your trip and grab that ticket. Whether it's DL, AA or UA, there are varying degrees of premium-ness right now (AA F & J differ in hard product only, with no Flagship Lounge and onboard meal service the same for the 2 classes). As others note, AS is way behind the back with a standard domestic F seat, but may have advantageous pricing.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
Soft product-wise, I do think, despite Delta's better overall branding and image, AA offers a higher quality onboard transcon product in business class than Delta.
Well, it's not even comparable at the moment, with DL serving pre-packaged snack boxes vs. AA's one tray hot meals followed by self serve snack baskets + the full beverage cart.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 12:26 pm
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How many entree choices are their for D1 travelers on this route? Is the menu printed?
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Old Mar 16, 21, 1:07 pm
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
How many entree choices are their for D1 travelers on this route? Is the menu printed?
Your choice on this route is generally between three snack boxes, along with beer or wine and water. There are no meals, even on Transcon D1 routes between JFK and LAX/SFO or other transcon D1 routes between the East Coast and West Coast. The only domestic D1 routes receiving meals are ATL-HNL and MSP-HNL.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 1:10 pm
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Originally Posted by enviroian View Post
How many entree choices are their for D1 travelers on this route? Is the menu printed?
There are three cold entree choices, with a detailed menu printed on the back of their shrink-wrapped boxes. No low-sodium options.

It is the same consistent catering offering as on E175 RJ segments of a certain minimum length.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 1:47 pm
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
There are no meals, even on Transcon D1 routes between JFK and LAX/SFO or other transcon D1 routes between the East Coast and West Coast.


Wow. AA surely has the market here and I'm sure UA too with their polaris but I'm not sure if they have hot meals.
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Old Mar 16, 21, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by PotomacApproach View Post
With the return of AA's 321T and UA now running 767's with Polaris to EWR, not to mention returning to JFK, the 2x2 DeltaOne 757 has become fairly uncompetitive. I'm going to NYC a lot more now that COVID's winding down and haven't booked a flight on DL in spite of being a PM. Any plans to upgrade or at least go to 1-2-1 like JFK-LAX?
If American's First class product on the 321T is pricing the same as Delta's Business class product on JFK-SFO, then its American who has the problem, and a big one at that.

If that isn't the case then the Delta 757 seat in C is literally exactly the same seat as the AA 321T C seat. So I'm confused.
Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
The D1 soft product is suffering as well. Moreover, when AA reopens its Flagship Lounges and UA, it's Polaris Lounges, DL faces an on-ground problems with its sole lounge offering,

It's all going to come down to pricing. and frequencies (until those ramp back up).
uh. Not transcons in Polaris lounge and I didn't think transcons C got into the Flagship Lounge either.

Originally Posted by DMPHL View Post
I think in terms of hard product, the apt comparison between AA and DL is the J cabin, not AA F. In that regard, the hard product is essentially identical between DL's 757 and AA's A321T. Soft product-wise, I do think, despite Delta's better overall branding and image, AA offers a higher quality onboard transcon product in business class than Delta.



You're correct. UA only offers United Club access to its transcon J passengers. Polaris is only for international.
I'll never understand why we always have these threads. "AA F is better than DL C!"

I bet those same people crap themselves when they figure out Y is way worse than both. God help them if they have to fly G4/NK/F9.
Originally Posted by enviroian View Post


Wow. AA surely has the market here and I'm sure UA too with their polaris but I'm not sure if they have hot meals.
You could argue Delta has the market because of the middle seat blocking. IMO that is much more valuable to me than airplane food.
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