Originally Posted by ATOBTTR

Another huge factor is that it relies on the argument that ATL and CLT sustain themselves off serving intra-SE traffic. They don't, which is what is going to be required to sustain this OP-proposed UA hub at RDU. Sure ATL and CLT facilitate significant amounts of intra-region traffic (when I went to college in Florida I flew FL-NC quite a bit) and it is part of what makes both hubs work. But ATL and CLT work because of also funneling traffic between the Southeast and the Northeast, Midwest, West Coast, DL's international destinations, etc. and do so without over-canibalizing other hubs in the network. Because of the amount of routes they serve, they can offer routes several times daily because of all the destinations around the country and globe they serve out of these hubs. RDU provides little to nothing new for UA in terms of facilitating traffic flow between the Northeast and the Southeast that IAD and EWR can't cover while pulling off traffic that helps fill flights out of IAD and EWR and what allows UA to offer the destinations and frequencies that it does out of IAD and EWR.

Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR

Aspen has such a snob factor that I was surprised that people fly commercial. I'd rather see DL start service from SLC to SAF or DRO in the future once we're out of the pandemic.

From what I can see, SLC is good for going from large east coast cities to Idaho, Montana, and smaller west coast cities. That seems to be where SLC is most useful. Plus, SLC has plenty of good skiing right up the mountains from the city. Denver requires a lot more driving to get to the ski areas.

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare

I'm not saying it isn't a complex decision. And it's not just southeast traffic flows UA is missing out on. They have a very limited Caribbean presence. Even with MIA, AA has still maintained CLT's Caribbean network. But I'd never have a widget on my tail again if I could fly UA or AS efficiently from MCO. But there is currently no way to fly UA on a routing like MCO-MEM/TYS/BNA/SAV or GCM/SXM/STT.

And no one has given me an answer of why UA still haven't been able to make IAD work after 35 years. They have steadily dropped and added routes, tried TED, and haven't made any improvements to their facilities.

Originally Posted by m907

​​​​​​In my experience, most east-west travel has been routed through MSP.

Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR

Think of smaller cities like MFR, EUG, EKO, and even RNO. Most are not accessed via MSP.

Originally Posted by m907

I was thinking of places like BZN, BIL, FCA.

Originally Posted by ATOBTTR

An additional point on RDU - JetBlue is the process of building a focus city at RDU and expanding from their current offerings of BOS, CUN, FLL, JFK, and LAX (and seasonal to RSW). Starting this month and next month, B6 is adding service out of RDU to AUS, JAX, LAS, EWR, MCO, SFO, and TPA. Including the LCCs/ULCCs, markets like Raleigh to Orlando and Raleigh to FLL/MIA and Tampa will already have 4-5-6 carriers serving the route. UA would *have* to serve these routes in such a hub but would be the as high as the seventh entrant in the market.

Originally Posted by ElmhurstNick

RDU T2 is about 45 gates for everyone except WN, so about the size of either AA or UA at ORD. DL's operation pre-COVID took up about a third of the gates (D1-11, C1 and 3, and then access to an international gate for CDG), had a significant CR9 component to business markets timed for the work day, and just a couple of CR2 routes like BWI and PHL. The CR9 worked for business people because C+ is plentiful and on a longer route like RDU-AUS paid F was often just $100 each way over economy, and the crews are inexpensive.

DL and AA have a quiet coexistence here, although I'm sure the fighting over corporate accounts pre-COVID was fierce behind the scenes. UA would be in for a slog trying to even double their 2019 gates here in 2022.

Originally Posted by ekozie

RDU T2 is not 45 gates. I don't think the 2040 expansion plans with two additional stubs in the middle and an extension to both ends even have 45 gates.

Originally Posted by indufan

Northern Arizona but some of that probably still dumps into DEN.

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist

I know people in northern NM who like to drive to DEN rather than ABQ.

Originally Posted by ekozie

I've lived here long enough to see multiple attempts by B6 to build up their schedule at RDU, only for it to be pared down every time to roughly FLL (2-3x), JFK (2-3x), BOS (1-2x).

I'll believe this attempt sticks when I see it.