T4 at JFK (mostly DL) poor design
#1
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T4 at JFK (mostly DL) poor design
I've flown out of nearly 30 airports in nearly 60 years of flying and the triple helix ramp design seems to be unique for T4, its not bad departing (downhill) but harder (as I get older) arriving (uphill).
Why would they design ramps like that?
Add in the "monster" size terminal, with moving "walkways" rarely 100% operational...make T4 a fun terminal to use.
Why would they design ramps like that?
Add in the "monster" size terminal, with moving "walkways" rarely 100% operational...make T4 a fun terminal to use.
#2
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I'm pretty sure the stacked jetway is due to the fact that departures are on the top floor but international arrivals need to be delivered to the lower level. It's just when you arrive on a non-international plane you have to go uphill to stay in the sterile area and then if JFK is your final destination you walk to the middle of T4 and go down an escalator to get back to the arrivals hall and baggage claim (but past customs and immigration).
In normal times all of the gates with that setup are used primarily for international arrivals and departures (or JFKLAX) and then once those planes arrive/depart, they are used as overflow for other flights.
In normal times all of the gates with that setup are used primarily for international arrivals and departures (or JFKLAX) and then once those planes arrive/depart, they are used as overflow for other flights.
#3
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I've flown out of nearly 30 airports in nearly 60 years of flying and the triple helix ramp design seems to be unique for T4, its not bad departing (downhill) but harder (as I get older) arriving (uphill).
Why would they design ramps like that?
Add in the "monster" size terminal, with moving "walkways" rarely 100% operational...make T4 a fun terminal to use.
Why would they design ramps like that?
Add in the "monster" size terminal, with moving "walkways" rarely 100% operational...make T4 a fun terminal to use.
#4
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AA T8 at JFK seems to have a better arrangement.
LHR, CDG, CPH, ZRH don't have multi level.
#5
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I'm pretty sure the stacked jetway is due to the fact that departures are on the top floor but international arrivals need to be delivered to the lower level. It's just when you arrive on a non-international plane you have to go uphill to stay in the sterile area and then if JFK is your final destination you walk to the middle of T4 and go down an escalator to get back to the arrivals hall and baggage claim (but past customs and immigration).
In normal times all of the gates with that setup are used primarily for international arrivals and departures (or JFKLAX) and then once those planes arrive/depart, they are used as overflow for other flights.
In normal times all of the gates with that setup are used primarily for international arrivals and departures (or JFKLAX) and then once those planes arrive/depart, they are used as overflow for other flights.
#6
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All airports that have widebody international traffic do this in some manner it's just whether they do it in the jetbridge itself or force you up/down stairs/escalators immediately after you de-plane. At my home airport RDU, for international flights you get off the jetbridge and then immediately have to go up an escalator/stairs because at RDU the departures level is on the jetbridge level and international arrivals are up on the second level.
#7
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Having only 1 SC 3/4 of mile down T4 is also a poor design, especially with the lack of people movers, as is closing off all the baggage claim exits except the one by the A concourse. Curb to last gate is almost 1 mile walk and vs.
#9
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It's not really any secret that this terminal is a giant pain. Whatever genius came up with the design should be forced to drag my luggage from TSA to the plane every time I fly through there, though I guess that NY planning for you.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
#10
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It's not really any secret that this terminal is a giant pain. Whatever genius came up with the design should be forced to drag my luggage from TSA to the plane every time I fly through there, though I guess that NY planning for you.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
#11
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It's not really any secret that this terminal is a giant pain. Whatever genius came up with the design should be forced to drag my luggage from TSA to the plane every time I fly through there, though I guess that NY planning for you.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken. T3 needed to be replaced for a long time and rather than sitting down and doing this in stages, they decided to go all in on the T4 expansion plan. It really is a shame because I feel like given proper planning and funding DL could have come up with a great facility that replaced T2 and T3 and consolidated operations in their own terminal, but oh well.
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
#12
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It's not really any secret that this terminal is a giant pain. Whatever genius came up with the design should be forced to drag my luggage from TSA to the plane every time I fly through there, though I guess that NY planning for you.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken.
The problem was the haste with which this project was undertaken.
Re the SC location, IME does try to make the "premium" flights leave from the adjacent gates, though of course some backtracking is occasionally necessary.
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If you look at the footprint of the terminal relative to the runways and taxiways, the long, thin extension of T4 is basically the best option short of rebuilding the whole airport from scratch, which of course would be a lot more expensive and complicated. There should have been more moving walkways from the start, but the post-TSA section was originally landside (and who wants to rush through a shopping mall, I ask ironically), and the gate section wasn't that big (or busy) originally (DL extended it twice). They did infill some walkways (the ones that you have to walk up a ramp to get to).
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Also, the more convenient arrival exit for those without luggage has been closed for a while now, so you have to walk all of the way to A concourse to exit terminal. If your plane is parked in the high 30s/40s gate, plan accordingly and wear something comfortable.
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Perhaps there's a business opportunity here for someone to start a mini-Uber company within JFK T4 using those little roofless golf carts they transport disabled/HVCs around in. I'd probably pay $3-5 for a ride from the high B gates to the exit.