CVG as Regional Non-Hub
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 195
CVG as Regional Non-Hub
This nice post on favorite SkyClubs got me wondering why, when I'm booking flights, I'm never given the option of connecting there anymore. A quick glance at Delta's route map indicates that CVG no longer serves as any sort of regional (by which I mean the Greater Ohio Valley) hub. It can connect folks flying from outlying areas, but not nearby areas.
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
#2
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Programs: Delta DM, United Silver, Marriott LT Platinum, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 853
This nice post on favorite SkyClubs got me wondering why, when I'm booking flights, I'm never given the option of connecting there anymore. A quick glance at Delta's route map indicates that CVG no longer serves as any sort of regional (by which I mean the Greater Ohio Valley) hub. It can connect folks flying from outlying areas, but not nearby areas.
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
#3
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MCO
Programs: DL PM, UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 4,319
This nice post on favorite SkyClubs got me wondering why, when I'm booking flights, I'm never given the option of connecting there anymore. A quick glance at Delta's route map indicates that CVG no longer serves as any sort of regional (by which I mean the Greater Ohio Valley) hub. It can connect folks flying from outlying areas, but not nearby areas.
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
This got me thinking -- I think there's a real missed opportunity here. There may not be a huge O/D demand for routes between CVG & PIT, CVG & CLE, etc., but I'm confident there's enough demand there to justify a regular route if combined with folks from PIT & CLE who might use the route as a stopover to elsewhere. As it is, there are no good airline options between these cities (or PIT-PHI, for that matter). CVG's de-hubbing several years back seems to have left a void. I am reminded that this is precisely the kind of void Southwest exploited when it was a start-up in Texas back in the day....
I suppose Delta's theory is that all Ohio Valley -originating flights can route through ATL or DTW, but I'd sure love to see some regional options to CVG. Thoughts?
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,059
PUBLISHED RTG ORL-WAS/DL2312/TAR-DRG1 EF-08JAN20 DIS-INDEF
MAP CONSTRUCTED LEFT TO RIGHT AND RIGHT TO LEFT
1. ORL-ATL/BOS/CVG/DTT/NYC/RDU-WAS
#5
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Central Florida
Programs: DL PM; MR Titanium & LTT; Hilton Diamond; National Exec Elite
Posts: 69
FWIW, the CVG Sky Club is one of my favourites.
#6
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Now in SLC
Programs: DL GM 1MM, MR LT Titanium
Posts: 4,118
1. CVG only worked as a regional hub when there were lots of 50 or fewer seat planes (CR2s, E35/45s, Fokkers, etc.) to serve the nearby destinations. Now that a large portion of them are gone, there's no good plane to serve CVG-PIT, CVG-CLE, etc--the CR7/CR9/E70/E75 are too big.
2. Hubs in the US rarely work economically when they rely on connecting passengers; they make money from O & D traffic. Connections are a small bonus.
2. Hubs in the US rarely work economically when they rely on connecting passengers; they make money from O & D traffic. Connections are a small bonus.
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: MSP
Programs: SkyMiles, Global Entry, Non-Rev
Posts: 101
Granted this was on a Sunday in an off-peak season, but my last time through CVG a couple of months ago Concourse B was a ghost town. When I went through there the only activity was a couple of CRJ flights to MSP, DTW, LGA, and ORD and a 737 going to ATL. Most of the activity was coming from the AA flights. I had never been through CVG before even after Delta cut flights but I could literally sit at any gate I wanted for the most part and be the only one in that area.
Concourse A on the other hand, which had a plethora of Allegiant, Southwest, and Frontier flights, was bustling.
Like I said, probably a different story during a summer peak day, but I was still surprised at how little passengers were over at the Delta side. I can't even imagine how empty it must of felt when Concourse C was still operational. I'm guessing the merger with Northwest and the pickup of DTW/MSP as hubs must have helped in CVG's demise.
Concourse A on the other hand, which had a plethora of Allegiant, Southwest, and Frontier flights, was bustling.
Like I said, probably a different story during a summer peak day, but I was still surprised at how little passengers were over at the Delta side. I can't even imagine how empty it must of felt when Concourse C was still operational. I'm guessing the merger with Northwest and the pickup of DTW/MSP as hubs must have helped in CVG's demise.
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,059
Granted this was on a Sunday in an off-peak season, but my last time through CVG a couple of months ago Concourse B was a ghost town. When I went through there the only activity was a couple of CRJ flights to MSP, DTW, LGA, and ORD and a 737 going to ATL. Most of the activity was coming from the AA flights. I had never been through CVG before even after Delta cut flights but I could literally sit at any gate I wanted for the most part and be the only one in that area.
Concourse A on the other hand, which had a plethora of Allegiant, Southwest, and Frontier flights, was bustling.
Like I said, probably a different story during a summer peak day, but I was still surprised at how little passengers were over at the Delta side. I can't even imagine how empty it must of felt when Concourse C was still operational. I'm guessing the merger with Northwest and the pickup of DTW/MSP as hubs must have helped in CVG's demise.
Concourse A on the other hand, which had a plethora of Allegiant, Southwest, and Frontier flights, was bustling.
Like I said, probably a different story during a summer peak day, but I was still surprised at how little passengers were over at the Delta side. I can't even imagine how empty it must of felt when Concourse C was still operational. I'm guessing the merger with Northwest and the pickup of DTW/MSP as hubs must have helped in CVG's demise.
Last edited by xliioper; Feb 22, 2020 at 1:59 am
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
They really need to bring back cities like MSY, MEM, PIT. Frontier and Allegiant took over some of them when Delta left to rfght over tiny margins and losses in SEA and BOS.
#11
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
1. CVG only worked as a regional hub when there were lots of 50 or fewer seat planes (CR2s, E35/45s, Fokkers, etc.) to serve the nearby destinations. Now that a large portion of them are gone, there's no good plane to serve CVG-PIT, CVG-CLE, etc--the CR7/CR9/E70/E75 are too big.
2. Hubs in the US rarely work economically when they rely on connecting passengers; they make money from O & D traffic. Connections are a small bonus.
2. Hubs in the US rarely work economically when they rely on connecting passengers; they make money from O & D traffic. Connections are a small bonus.
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,059
Large connecting operations like ATL and CLT work because of huge economies of scale leading to very low costs as well as providing many connecting options and the frequencies that business travelers look for. You can't replicate these with a small scale connecting hub and the CASM issues with the smaller CRJ's are already very well known. MEM doesn't even currently have an SLC flight (although it makes a return in July). It's just a spoke in the DL system now and a smallish one at that. PIT/MSY might have a better shot (MSY would likely have seasonal demand issues).
Last edited by xliioper; Feb 22, 2020 at 3:02 am
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: TPA / JFK / LAX
Programs: DL 360, UA 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy Ambassador
Posts: 304
Large connecting operations like ATL and CLT work because of huge economies of scale leading to very low costs as well as providing many connecting options and the frequencies that business travelers look for. You can't replicate these with a small scale connecting hub and the CASM issues with the smaller CRJ's are already very well known. MEM doesn't even currently have an SLC flight (although it makes a return in July). It's just a spoke in the DL system now and a smallish one at that. PIT/MSY might have a better shot (MSY would likely have seasonal demand issues).
#14
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 552
RIP CVG. Back in the day, there were no less than 4 daily non-stops to places like Memphis. Two on Northwest and two on Delta. The Delta/Northwest merger absolutely devastated point to point flying on intra-Midwest and upper south itineraries. Combine that with the loss of STL, PIT, DAY, CMH and CLE as hubs, and its easier to just drive most places rather than fly. Sad.
#15
Join Date: May 2016
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 1,241
The SFO-CVG redeye uses CVG as a connecting point for a lot of east coast cities (and anecdotally in coach often seems to price out cheaper than other connecting hubs). I’ve done SFO-CVG-DCA before, and know some colleagues who’ve used it for SFO-CVG-BOS overnight flights.