Deaf couple and discrimination at DTW...thoughts?
Jan 30, 2019, 6:39 pm
#47
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I don’t think you guys are talking about the same thing here - the screenshot says a disabled passenger is entitled to a seat next to the person specifically there to assist, not any travel companion. Feel free to disagree, but there’s really no need for the attitude.
Jan 30, 2019, 6:50 pm
#48
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I contradicted your point, you said "they have the right to be seated with their companion only if they are able to act as an interpreter."
You were wrong, there are clearly other conditions indicated.
That you couldn't not grasp that from the link or screen shot I'm not sure I can be of more help.
You were wrong, there are clearly other conditions indicated.
That you couldn't not grasp that from the link or screen shot I'm not sure I can be of more help.
Jan 30, 2019, 7:08 pm
#49
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None of this would have escalated if these customers would have just booked seats together in the first place, or alerted the airline of their need for accommodation upon booking their flights and not receiving a seat. This is a universal duty of anyone requesting accommodation. And this was not their first flight since the article states they were flying back to California which is their home.
If you make a hotel reservation and need an adaptive room, do you wait until check-in and spring the request on them, or make the request at time of booking?
DL does a good job of telling you what you are not getting when you book a BE fare before you pay for it. You don't have to be a seasoned traveler to know you need to hit GO BACK if you need seats together while booking. Now whether DL should be selling a product that they don't really want anyone to buy, or regret buying, is a topic for another thread.
If you make a hotel reservation and need an adaptive room, do you wait until check-in and spring the request on them, or make the request at time of booking?
DL does a good job of telling you what you are not getting when you book a BE fare before you pay for it. You don't have to be a seasoned traveler to know you need to hit GO BACK if you need seats together while booking. Now whether DL should be selling a product that they don't really want anyone to buy, or regret buying, is a topic for another thread.
Maybe we need to go back to the days of the long lines for the seat assignment stickers given out at the gate. I bet the GA's are glad those are gone.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:03 pm
#51
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How did they want the GA to phrase the request for volunteers to change seats? A couple would like to sit together, so would someone like to take a middle seat? or There are two deaf adults on this flight and because they're deaf, they need to sit together, so who wants to take their middle seat?
I would guess that they would not have wanted the GA to announce that they're deaf to everyone on the flight, nor would they view deafness as something that requires them to sit together, with the implication that deaf people can't travel alone.
I could see an argument for special treatment in the GA or FA trying hard to get them seats together if it's the case that one of them can do lip reading or can speak but the other can communicate only in sign language or by reading and writing, so that one of them could help the other to communicate with the FA on board or help to communicate in an emergency. This would be similar to the case of a traveling companion who provides assistance for passengers with other types of disabilities, such as feeding someone who is physically incapable of eating without help. However, normally if this is the situation, the passenger needing assistance would have their medical condition noted on the record and they would be approved for travel only if accompanied by a traveling companion who can provide the needed assistance. Then the person would never again be permitted to travel alone unless they could prove that the assistance is no longer needed.
I would guess that they would not have wanted the GA to announce that they're deaf to everyone on the flight, nor would they view deafness as something that requires them to sit together, with the implication that deaf people can't travel alone.
I could see an argument for special treatment in the GA or FA trying hard to get them seats together if it's the case that one of them can do lip reading or can speak but the other can communicate only in sign language or by reading and writing, so that one of them could help the other to communicate with the FA on board or help to communicate in an emergency. This would be similar to the case of a traveling companion who provides assistance for passengers with other types of disabilities, such as feeding someone who is physically incapable of eating without help. However, normally if this is the situation, the passenger needing assistance would have their medical condition noted on the record and they would be approved for travel only if accompanied by a traveling companion who can provide the needed assistance. Then the person would never again be permitted to travel alone unless they could prove that the assistance is no longer needed.
If the GA wanted to seat them together, they could probably just move some Basic Economy folks around.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:04 pm
#52
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Jan 30, 2019, 8:11 pm
#53
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However there is a clear list of other condition which would justify having an adjacent seat. "A personal care attendant" for example...
There is no reading of any of these provisions that should be taken as a limitation on what accommodation a person could be entitled.
But, the argument being made has also never been that the person in question needed an interpreter, the argument is that the person was entitled to respect that was not given. What people are calling "futile" and "silly" is actually someone's civil liberties.
Jan 30, 2019, 8:21 pm
#55
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But, at least DL allows people booking main cabin, with no airline FF status, to book two seats together with no seat fee. Try doing that on AA.
Jan 30, 2019, 9:55 pm
#56
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Would you claim that the ACAA allows a Delta agent to refuse to communicate with a deaf person in written English? That seems to be the issue hear.
Jan 30, 2019, 10:41 pm
#57
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That answer was in response to the comments of N830MH, who insisted that there should have been an employee that could sign. I never said the GA did a good job handling the communication. The ACAA does require that people with disabilities be provided a CRO upon request, but as it is never mentioned, it does not seem they knew to ask for one. Due to encroaching on the GAs space, they may not have had time to anyway, as that is a great way to ensure you won’t be getting on an airplane. I’ll be the first one to tell you that people with disabilities need to understand what rights various laws do and don’t give them. These passengers were correctly told “No” by a GA and refused to accept it. Even if the GA had given a legally incorrect response, they still deserved to be denied boarding for going into the GAs space. As I said earlier, that action was game over for them in our post 9/11 airport culture.
Jan 30, 2019, 11:03 pm
#58
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I have been a freelance ASL interpreter for over 20 years. There is a 99% chance that there was no GA in the entire airport that could of had a fluent conversation about seat assignments in ASL.
The way the GA communicated by writing was totally fine for this situation. But, finding a GA that is patient enough to write back and forth with a Deaf person who uses ASL ( which is not the same as English ) , is another story. If and when the police show up, that’s the time to bring the interpreter in or use VRI ( video remote interpreter )
There is also a cultural difference here. I’ll let the two Deaf FTers here answer that part.
If if you’re curious, none of my Deaf clients have ever wanted to sit next to me on a flight. They would also be offended if I even asked.
I do have one totally Deaf and blind friend that I have sat with. That role is totally different than an interpreter. I flew with him down to Nassau and took him diving with sharks!!
The way the GA communicated by writing was totally fine for this situation. But, finding a GA that is patient enough to write back and forth with a Deaf person who uses ASL ( which is not the same as English ) , is another story. If and when the police show up, that’s the time to bring the interpreter in or use VRI ( video remote interpreter )
There is also a cultural difference here. I’ll let the two Deaf FTers here answer that part.
If if you’re curious, none of my Deaf clients have ever wanted to sit next to me on a flight. They would also be offended if I even asked.
I do have one totally Deaf and blind friend that I have sat with. That role is totally different than an interpreter. I flew with him down to Nassau and took him diving with sharks!!
Jan 31, 2019, 11:58 am
#59
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In an earlier post, I discussed whether (apparently not) one but not both of them could speak or lipread so as to be able to assist the other, as that would seem to be a situation in which there would be an entitlement for seats together (assuming that other policies are followed).
BTW, is there a requirement that the assisting travel companion be on the same PNR? It would certainly be wise.
BTW, is there a requirement that the assisting travel companion be on the same PNR? It would certainly be wise.
Jan 31, 2019, 1:45 pm
#60
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