Deaf couple and discrimination at DTW...thoughts?
Jan 30, 2019, 3:16 pm
#31
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL hub captive, AA
Posts: 21
The bottom line is that these individuals do not have the right to be seated together. If one of the individuals was hearing and acting as a sign language interpreter, and thus able to actually be of assistance during the flight for things like overhead announcements and FA interaction, they would/should be accommodated. Being seated together does not mitigate either of their disabilities and as such, DL is not discriminating against them by not forcing other passengers to move. It was rude of the GA to throw away the paper, but the passengers rapid social media campaign indicates that they were in possession of smartphones that can be used for typing messages if no paper is available. They are trying to manipulate the system to get money from DL after they violated the GAs space.
I’m disabled, and in the very rare circumstance in which my rights are violated, I simply get documentation from the highest ranking employee available and have my attorney contact the company to resolve the issue; no reason to lower myself by engaging in a physical or verbal altercation.
I’m disabled, and in the very rare circumstance in which my rights are violated, I simply get documentation from the highest ranking employee available and have my attorney contact the company to resolve the issue; no reason to lower myself by engaging in a physical or verbal altercation.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:18 pm
#32
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Paper? Really? "... only readily available paper, doing this deprives them of their ability to communicate at all, with anyone, ... " Really?
I've seen teenage girls type faster on a cell phone than I can on a keyboard. I"m sure that a deaf individual (or two) can manage this modern feat most handily without the need for such antiquated means of communication as pen and paper.
As to "record of the conversation" that's just nonsense. ... As I see it, this issue is so blown out of proportion by a couple of DYKWIAm's as to be comical.
I've seen teenage girls type faster on a cell phone than I can on a keyboard. I"m sure that a deaf individual (or two) can manage this modern feat most handily without the need for such antiquated means of communication as pen and paper.
As to "record of the conversation" that's just nonsense. ... As I see it, this issue is so blown out of proportion by a couple of DYKWIAm's as to be comical.
1. An overwhelming number of posters would do well to give even a cursory look at the protections that have been codified into law (Americans with Disabilities Act is easily googlable).
2. Denying others the benefits you enjoy for superficial reasons is discrimination, period. Sometimes that discrimination isn't just rude, sometimes it is illegal. Spend a minute thinking about what you stand to gain and lose by tacitly and implicitly supporting either.
Yes, people make requests, sometimes for things that they are not entitled to. If reasonable accommodation is guaranteed by law, and in this case it was (but I'm no lawyer) then refusing accommodated communication ... you can fill in the blanks.
3. This is embarrassing and I'm sorry the OP has to see this in an online community. You deserve better than this, and I'm truly saddened by the discrimination and intolerance you face.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:22 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL hub captive, AA
Posts: 21
Please feel attacked, you're certainly not the only one with ignorance on display here, but you're truly out of control.
1. An overwhelming number of posters would do well to give even a cursory look at the protections that have been codified into law (Americans with Disabilities Act is easily googlable).
2. Denying others the benefits you enjoy for superficial reasons is discrimination, period. Sometimes that discrimination isn't just rude, sometimes it is illegal. Spend a minute thinking about what you stand to gain and lose by tacitly and implicitly supporting either.
Yes, people make requests, sometimes for things that they are not entitled to. If reasonable accommodation is guaranteed by law, and in this case it was (but I'm no lawyer) then refusing accommodated communication ... you can fill in the blanks.
3. This is embarrassing and I'm sorry the OP has to see this in an online community. You deserve better than this, and I'm truly saddened by the discrimination and intolerance you face.
1. An overwhelming number of posters would do well to give even a cursory look at the protections that have been codified into law (Americans with Disabilities Act is easily googlable).
2. Denying others the benefits you enjoy for superficial reasons is discrimination, period. Sometimes that discrimination isn't just rude, sometimes it is illegal. Spend a minute thinking about what you stand to gain and lose by tacitly and implicitly supporting either.
Yes, people make requests, sometimes for things that they are not entitled to. If reasonable accommodation is guaranteed by law, and in this case it was (but I'm no lawyer) then refusing accommodated communication ... you can fill in the blanks.
3. This is embarrassing and I'm sorry the OP has to see this in an online community. You deserve better than this, and I'm truly saddened by the discrimination and intolerance you face.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:28 pm
#34
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL hub captive, AA
Posts: 21
The seating accommodations section of transportation.gov explains the situations in which a disabled person has the right to be seated with a companion. For Deaf passengers, they have the right to be seated with their companion only if they are able to act as an interpreter. This was not the case for these passengers.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:31 pm
#35
Join Date: Mar 2018
Programs: SkyMiles 2018 PM, 2019 PM, 2020 PM, 2021 PM, 2022 PM, 2023 PM...
Posts: 314
The seating accommodations section of transportation.gov explains the situations in which a disabled person has the right to be seated with a companion. For Deaf passengers, they have the right to be seated with their companion only if they are able to act as an interpreter. This was not the case for these passengers.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:33 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 120
Please feel attacked, you're certainly not the only one with ignorance on display here, but you're truly out of control.
1. An overwhelming number of posters would do well to give even a cursory look at the protections that have been codified into law (Americans with Disabilities Act is easily googlable).
2. Denying others the benefits you enjoy for superficial reasons is discrimination, period. Sometimes that discrimination isn't just rude, sometimes it is illegal. Spend a minute thinking about what you stand to gain and lose by tacitly and implicitly supporting either.
Yes, people make requests, sometimes for things that they are not entitled to. If reasonable accommodation is guaranteed by law, and in this case it was (but I'm no lawyer) then refusing accommodated communication ... you can fill in the blanks.
3. This is embarrassing and I'm sorry the OP has to see this in an online community. You deserve better than this, and I'm truly saddened by the discrimination and intolerance you face.
1. An overwhelming number of posters would do well to give even a cursory look at the protections that have been codified into law (Americans with Disabilities Act is easily googlable).
2. Denying others the benefits you enjoy for superficial reasons is discrimination, period. Sometimes that discrimination isn't just rude, sometimes it is illegal. Spend a minute thinking about what you stand to gain and lose by tacitly and implicitly supporting either.
Yes, people make requests, sometimes for things that they are not entitled to. If reasonable accommodation is guaranteed by law, and in this case it was (but I'm no lawyer) then refusing accommodated communication ... you can fill in the blanks.
3. This is embarrassing and I'm sorry the OP has to see this in an online community. You deserve better than this, and I'm truly saddened by the discrimination and intolerance you face.
Look, Delta should have accommodated them. End of story. If you can do something good for someone then you should do it. That's common sense and a good business practice. But disability or no... no one has a Constitutional right to sit next to their travelling companions on a plane. Is it good business policy? Yes. Is it a legally protected right? Unless you can demonstrate that they are medically unable to travel without each other's companionship - then no, it is not.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:50 pm
#37
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Come on. These are honest and reasonable questions to debate... no one is being discriminated against in this discussion. No need to shame anyone.
Look, Delta should have accommodated them. End of story. If you can do something good for someone then you should do it. That's common sense and a good business practice. But disability or no... no one has a Constitutional right to sit next to their travelling companions on a plane. Is it good business policy? Yes. Is it a legally protected right? Unless you can demonstrate that they are medically unable to travel without each other's companionship - then no, it is not.
Look, Delta should have accommodated them. End of story. If you can do something good for someone then you should do it. That's common sense and a good business practice. But disability or no... no one has a Constitutional right to sit next to their travelling companions on a plane. Is it good business policy? Yes. Is it a legally protected right? Unless you can demonstrate that they are medically unable to travel without each other's companionship - then no, it is not.
The hardships that people with disabilities face are serious, and routinely overlooked to the point that we've had to make laws about them.
It is not superfluous and laughable terrain.
Now, there are legitimate question mixed into the otherwise offensive display.
One is what does the law and governing body actually say?
The US Dept of Transportation is in charge of this regulation. The guidance they offer is HERE.
It says:
- An Adjoining Seat: If you are traveling with a person who is assisting you during the flight such as:
- A personal care attendant who performs a function that is not required to be performed by airline personnel, for example assisting you with eating;
- A reader if you are blind or visually impaired;
- An interpreter if you are deaf or hard of hearing; or
- A safety assistant, for example if you cannot assist with your own evacuation.
Now some of the forum lawyers have taken it upon themselves address what they believe the guidance says. They have passed judgment on this provision. It is not clear to me that an argument was made for the request to fall under this provision.
What is clear to me is that the passengers had an absolute expectation to be treated with respect and be given a full explanation of the condition of their travel.
It is unequivocal, the GA did not communicate thoroughly, period.
It is also clear that the GA did not make sure that these conditions were not present.
We can also look at the further accounting they offer:
Note: If the conditions above do not apply to your situation, the airline is still required to provide you with a seat assignment that best accommodates your disability. This may include one of the seating accommodations listed under “Seat Assignment Criteria” above. However, if you do not meet the airline’s seating assignment criteria (ex. you did not check-in on time), the airline must only provide the seating accommodation to the extent practicable.
In terms of seating, what is "practicable?"I want pretend to know what that explicit guidance relates to, but if I'm communicating with a gate agent on a piece of paper, and that paper gets balled up and thrown away...
But if you review the ugly commentary here you'll see being treated with respect, just basic respect it too much.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:50 pm
#38
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL hub captive, AA
Posts: 21
They got communication; they just didn’t like the answer. No one is entitled to require a GA to engage in a prolonged futile argument. GA should have called a superior to take them aside and deal with them, but they did violate the GAs space. Post 9/11, once you violate an employee’s space at an airport, it is game over.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:52 pm
#39
Join Date: Mar 2018
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The seating accommodations section of transportation.gov explains the situations in which a disabled person has the right to be seated with a companion. For Deaf passengers, they have the right to be seated with their companion only if they are able to act as an interpreter. This was not the case for these passengers.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:53 pm
#40
Join Date: Mar 2018
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They got communication; they just didn’t like the answer. No one is entitled to require a GA to engage in a prolonged futile argument. GA should have called a superior to take them aside and deal with them, but they did violate the GAs space. Post 9/11, once you violate an employee’s space at an airport, it is game over.
As this is futile, peace.
Jan 30, 2019, 3:56 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2017
Programs: DL hub captive, AA
Posts: 21
Jan 30, 2019, 3:58 pm
#42
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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No, they didn't help them. They cannot hear, or speaking from GA. They asked someone who need an interpreter. They can communicating with deaf people. They must required to get an interpreter. All employees must required to learn how to do sign language. They have to understand each others.
Jan 30, 2019, 4:19 pm
#44
Join Date: Mar 2018
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You were wrong, there are clearly other conditions indicated.
That you couldn't grasp that from the link or screen shot I'm not sure I can be of more help.
Last edited by Wimsta; Jan 30, 2019 at 8:02 pm
Jan 30, 2019, 4:21 pm
#45
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Given the other errors you've made, can you provide a link to the guidance you seem to be using? The ACAA is clear about being enforced by the US dept. of Transportation, and their guidance is what has been posted.