jdrtravel

Why? If there were likely to be empty seats in J doesn't this save DL more money than by upping the VDB offer? I don't understand why an upgrade can't be part of a VDB offer? I have certainly seen it offered before, and of course op-ups to J happen all the time.

pvn

lol, are you serious?

I mean, let's flip this around. From a shareholder perspective, when compensating people for VDBs, I'd much rather use an upgrade that they were just going to give to some mooching, entitled elite rather than cash-equivelents. zero-sum "benefits" should ABSOLUTELY be offered as compensation. Delta isn't running a charity to benefit elites.

pvn

What if the buy-up to J is $2000 and they had offered the OP a $2000 voucher and another $2000 voucher that he immediately used to buy up to J? Would you still be all bent out of shape then?

Often1

The problem here is not that OP was offered an UG, but that the Red Coat lacked the authority to do what she did. Someone had that authority but not the Red Coat.

jdrtravel

OP has stated multiple times that the person who approved this was a higher level manager, not a Red Coat or GA. Again, I don't understand why offering an upgrade as a form of VDB compensation seems so crazy to people. I thought it was regular practice. I've certainly been offered that, though on a domestic route.

Orange County Commuter

Have you tried the social media shaming. Post the screen shots on their twitter and facebook page. (That always gets me a response.)

That said I basically have learned never to leave the gate area until I have exactly what I was promised. that way you would have been there when the RedCoat was dealing with whomever he claims overrode him to discuss your options in person before the supervisor goes home for the day

There seem to be a lot of people involved here and staying in the gate area helps you make sure that when A tells B something it's the RIGHT thing.

Widgets

RaflW

Really. RM is looking at what inventory they can sell today for max cash revenue. They are not looking at what value DMs bring to DL over the long term as a profitable customer.

And DL has been making a big deal about the percent of seats up front 'sold' and, maybe I'm wrong but an instrument UG should count as 'sold' not as a complimentary, zero revenue UG. GUCs don't have a face value, but sort of like a miles UG, should be accounted for as a type of currency redeemed by a DM - I assume issuing GUCs on DM renewal has some kind of back-end accounting cost associated, so 'spending' it means the D1 seat is sold not flying non-revs or OpUps.

I'll note, I do appreciate AF doing DOD OpUps into J. I gather DL decided not to take that approach, but I was 'surprised and delighted' to get out of a hardshell PE seat to even an angle-flat last spring on an A330 to MSP. DL wants to only sell J (or give employee perqs), OK. But do it correctly! The way yo get there is through measurement of GA performance on gate processing GUCs and RUCs. What gets measured gets done, my old boss always liked to say.

Often1

Yes, OP has said that. But, it seems clear that the individual who approved the freebie did not have the authority either. If properly approved, very doubtful that RM would have (or could have) booted OP back to steerage.

RM are the folks who make these sorts of decisions at most major carriers. It is not just about one empty seat on one flight, but rather about protecting revenue across the brand.

btonkid12345

To provide my thoughts on two recent points made:

*A better way to account for it than a voucher for the fare difference, would be to simply place it into a mileage upgrade class. If they really wanted to, they could have deducted the miles from me, then deposited in the same amount so it wouldn't have a net impact on me.

A random ticketing person supposedly turned this down.

*I wasn't at the gate when the Red Coat was fixing my ticket. My voice was almost out and I needed some water at least.

It was clearly a mistake to leave. The Red Coat could have been blaming RM to point fingers and not have to deal with it, because she claimed RM had left a note in the PNR.

The Need Help Desk (that issued the meal/hotel vouchers) read to me the notes and there was nothing from RM or Ticketing - just my VDB notes, and the notes from when I moved those 2 incorrectly-ticketed E segments to Main Cabin where a supervisor noted (per my request) that SDC was allowed on the domestic flights because it was a fully Main Cabin ticket.

If RM had flagged it, I wonder how the next day phone supervisor got it done.

Also, if RM cares so much about accounting for UGs, they shouldn't have let the flight leave early with 5 on the D1 list and 3 empties. If I was #1-4 I would be waiting at the gate for the new seat assignment.

Finally, at least 1 of the 3 D1 empties (when the door closed) behind me was filled after takeoff. I was so exhausted I only noticed it filled after being empty and what the guy looked like - not when he arrived/left or if he knew the crew etc

MarkCron

Day later op-up and $2000 in hand, I would quit while I was ahead. But that may be a minority opinion on here.

jdrtravel

Except that upgrades for VDB do happen. They have been reported on FT and I've experienced it myself. Are all of those GA's (not even red coats) just breaking rules?

And this idea that they can't be accounted for in forecasting is illogical. When DL forecasts overbooking they can, I assume, include all data points from all variables. A pax being switched to a later flight because they accepted a vbd offer is not some random event that will throw the data off. Rather, it is a regular and somewhat predictable event that can easily be accounted for in the big data that DL has on itself. Also, the suggestion that DL give out more voucher dollars and to purchase the ticket would certainly throw things off more than an op-up, because it would give the false impression of a D1 sale that did not actually happen.






It's also just possible that someone at RM made a mistake by, perhaps, not properly reading the notes, or was having a bad day and just denied this upgrade rather than dig deeper into it. It's possible that the airport staff acted properly and that RM did not.

GNVFlyer

Just a thought. Keep in mind the goal of revenue management is to maximize the cash taken in on a given flight. Upgrading the night (at the time of the VDB) before robbed them of the opportunity to monetize the seat via some offer to passengers in a lower class of service. The fact the seats did not ultimately sell might be irrevelent as revenue management was more concerned about the opportunity to avoid spoiled inventory. Likely. the following morning most passengers had checked in meaning the opportunity to monetize (and avoid spoilage) was all but gone so RM didn't care what happened to the seat. That said. Delta should still have honored their contract with OP even if it meant not maximizing revenue for the flight. A contract is contract

Often1

The supervisor with you ultimately spoke and who got this fixed for you presumably either knew or asked who at DL could authorize the UG. She then messaged that group, got approval and then issued your ticket into D1.

The Red Coat could likely have done this for you as well. But, she didn't get the right approval. So, RM gave you the boot.

I suspect that you were the victim of a harried Red Coat dealing with a mess who should likely have told you that it would take some time to get things done, as the phone supervisor told you, and then figured it out.

Kacee

So, in time honored FT tradition, there is an extremely complex, disputed, never to be conclusively-resolved answer to the question "what happened?" Most of which is not particularly relevant. Because the simple, and best, answer to that question is "inexcusable customer service failure at multiple levels." Ultimately, it reflects a cs culture which is increasingly tilted in favor of "no," "there's nothing I can do," and "pound sand."