More seat swapping/poaching fun!
Oct 24, 2018, 9:13 am
#286
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,808
I don't see booking the window and aisle as a scam. After all, two people, two seats. And if that leaves only the middle for people booking later...that's what they deserve for booking late.
But I DO think it's naieve to do this. After all, the vast majority of domestic US flights are full. Odds are against this actually working anyhow. It's a shallow hope and when you look at the seat map, it's obvious someone thinks they are being clever.
But it's not a scam. It violates no rules.
But I DO think it's naieve to do this. After all, the vast majority of domestic US flights are full. Odds are against this actually working anyhow. It's a shallow hope and when you look at the seat map, it's obvious someone thinks they are being clever.
But it's not a scam. It violates no rules.
Oct 24, 2018, 11:13 am
#287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
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Oct 24, 2018, 11:27 am
#288
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Delta marriott
Posts: 30
PROUDELITIST QUOTE
“I don't see booking the window and aisle as a scam. After all, two people, two seats. And if that leaves only the middle for people booking later...that's what they deserve for booking late.”
✈️ My thoughts:
So the Diamond who books last minute deserves the middle seat while the platinum elitist who is booking early is more worthy of two free economy comfort upgrades because they paid the lowest fares they deserve the best coach seats and a nice bargain for them!
It is Delta’s prerogative to run their business anyway they want and because of their way of thinking to cater to the bargain basement traveler Is why I will not buy shares of DAL
I am entitled to my opinion and I believe that the most logical, most profitable and fairest way to do the economy comfort upgrades is to start upgrading 5 days out like they do with first class based on status and price paid.
I am sure most of you here will disagree with me because that would end taking advantage of a policy that favors platinums flying with companions over diamonds
Remember Diamonds spend over $15,000 a year to keep their status Platinums don’t
Last edited by Flyinlion1000; Oct 24, 2018 at 11:33 am Reason: Posting my way diamond emoji don’ work
Oct 24, 2018, 11:51 am
#290
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,349
PROUDELITIST QUOTE
“I don't see booking the window and aisle as a scam. After all, two people, two seats. And if that leaves only the middle for people booking later...that's what they deserve for booking late.”
✈️ My thoughts:
So the Diamond who books last minute deserves the middle seat while the platinum elitist who is booking early is more worthy of two free economy comfort upgrades because they paid the lowest fares they deserve the best coach seats and a nice bargain for them!
You are failing to understand supply and demand. The person who books early has a large supply to choose from. Thus, at least for certain higher value customers who have demonstrated significant repeat business, DL offers an incentive to entice them to continue choosing DL. On the other hand, the late booker has far less supply to choose from which meets their needs. DL can still get their business despite only having an offering of middle seats because this traveler is more likely to be worried about another factor such as schedule. There are other factors too but this is a key component of airline supply and demand and also the same philosophy on whubairline tickets are generally cheaper further out and more expensive as departure date approaches - the lines of supply and demand moving closer together.
It is Delta’s prerogative to run their business anyway they want and because of their way of thinking to cater to the bargain basement traveler Is why I will not buy shares of DAL
I am entitled to my opinion and I believe that the most logical, most profitable and fairest way to do the economy comfort upgrades is to start upgrading 5 days out like they do with first class based on status and price paid.
I am entitled to my opinion and I believe that the most logical, most profitable and fairest way to do the economy comfort upgrades is to start upgrading 5 days out like they do with first class based on status and price paid.
It’s also funny you’ve spent so much time focusing on PMs in this - like GMs, FOs, or non status who either pay for C+ or book preferred seats or regular seats can’t engage in the same practice and you also act like DMs don’t book early and don’t bring companions nor have the oppprtunity to engage in the same practice.
Oct 24, 2018, 12:05 pm
#291
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Delta marriott
Posts: 30
You are failing to understand supply and demand. The person who books early has a large supply to choose from. Thus, at least for certain higher value customers who have demonstrated significant repeat business, DL offers an incentive to entice them to continue choosing DL. On the other hand, the late booker has far less supply to choose from which meets their needs. DL can still get their business despite only having an offering of middle seats because this traveler is more likely to be worried about another factor such as schedule. There are other factors too but this is a key component of airline supply and demand and also the same philosophy on whubairline tickets are generally cheaper further out and more expensive as departure date approaches - the lines of supply and demand moving closer together.
Well sure, you’re entitled to your opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts though and DL has its own facts and data and revenue to make these decisions that currently disagree with your assessment, which almost amazingly, matches what you think would be best for you, while DL makes decisions that it believes is best for its bottom line factoring in all customers and potential revenue as a whole.
Because only PMs book early and have companions while DMs only book late and don’t have companions?And in my household, Mrs. ATOBTTR is herself a PM, so between the two of us, you can imagine how much money DL makes off of our household for our travels - more than some DMs make DL as solo travelers.
Plenty of PMs outspend many DMs.... they just may not be flying as long of flights which is why they aren’t racking up as many MQMs to cross the thresholds for DM but that doesn’t mean they aren’t reaching DM spend levels or traveling just as frequently.
It’s also funny you’ve spent so much time focusing on PMs in this - like GMs, FOs, or non status who either pay for C+ or book preferred seats or regular seats can’t engage in the same practice and you also act like DMs don’t book early and don’t bring companions nor have the oppprtunity to engage in the same practice.
I want to thank you for explaining your way of thinking nicely!
my question for you is
Do you think it is fair to do the economy comfort upgrades 5 days out based on status, price paid, etc..?
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
my question for you is
Do you think it is fair to do the economy comfort upgrades 5 days out based on status, price paid, etc..?
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
Oct 24, 2018, 12:10 pm
#292
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 960
I want to thank you for explaining your way of thinking nicely!
my question for you is
Do you think it is fair to do the economy comfort upgrades 5 days out based on status, price paid, etc..?
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
my question for you is
Do you think it is fair to do the economy comfort upgrades 5 days out based on status, price paid, etc..?
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
This subject has no reason to be here and stay here. I'm pretty sure there are other threads more appropriate for this discussion.
Oct 24, 2018, 12:18 pm
#293
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Delta marriott
Posts: 30
It is part of the seat swapping poaching tales
the taking of the aisle and window seat in hope of keeping the middle seat open is what is mostly creating the seat swapping situation
I thought it was the intent of Delta to give companions a free upgrade was so they could sit next to each other not to play monkey in the middle games
the taking of the aisle and window seat in hope of keeping the middle seat open is what is mostly creating the seat swapping situation
I thought it was the intent of Delta to give companions a free upgrade was so they could sit next to each other not to play monkey in the middle games
Last edited by Flyinlion1000; Oct 24, 2018 at 12:24 pm Reason: Mispelling was in a hurry ✈️
Oct 24, 2018, 12:57 pm
#294
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,349
And for all you know, them booking that way may have been what enabled you to get on the flight at all. After all, you posted upthread that because this couple booked this way, other people may have then not booked that flight because only middle seats were available, and they booked another flight or another airline altogether. Had the window and middle been occupied, leaving an aisle open, someone else may have booked that seat before you did and filled the flight. But that person was steered away, leaving that seat for you to then be able to book (which despite being a middle, wasn't enough of a turn off to at least prevent you from booking the flight and taking the seat). Does that mean you should be thankful they booked that way instead of upset at their "scam" when their "scam" may well be what enabled you to get on the flight?
Additionally, there's no way to tell if the couple in an aisle and window combo booked it that way initially as well, unless you're checking the seat map literally nonstop, or if they got it that way at the last minute. Such a possibility is two unrelated travelers book the aisle and window in the same row at some point prior to the flight. You then book the middle at some time afterward (but still at least a couple days before the flight). Both the aisle and window seat travelers initially in those seats experience IROPs or SDC or a mix of the two and those seats are now vacant. Then other travelers - now a set of two - either because of SDC or IROPs or who may have had other middle seats on the same flight just looking for better seats or seats at least near each other - the select those seats. They then offer to switch with the person in the middle seat. They may have booked it that way because it's what became available at some point.
Do you think it is fair to do the economy comfort upgrades 5 days out based on status, price paid, etc..?
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
The same way Delta does first class upgrades which gives Delta an opporunity to sell the seats instead of giving them away
I understand the decision is up to Delta, I just would like your opinion
Oct 24, 2018, 1:08 pm
#295
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 960
It is part of the seat swapping poaching tales
the taking of the aisle and window seat in hope of keeping the middle seat open is what is mostly creating the seat swapping situation
I thought it was the intent of Delta to give companions a free upgrade was so they could sit next to each other not to play monkey in the middle games
the taking of the aisle and window seat in hope of keeping the middle seat open is what is mostly creating the seat swapping situation
I thought it was the intent of Delta to give companions a free upgrade was so they could sit next to each other not to play monkey in the middle games
Your arguments are biased.
It is only one of the several situations which can end in a seat swap request. And even regular pax with no status are able to try it.
Finally, this discussion is not fun, it is just you complaining about a very old tactic couples use in an attempt to grab a free seat between them.
Oct 24, 2018, 4:56 pm
#296
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Delta marriott
Posts: 30
Even if they're creating the "situation", I believe you're the only person who I've come across who would be so annoyed at being asked to swap seats that they'd stay in a middle seat just to avoid swapping seats. When you book, and the window seat and aisle seat are both occupied, you cannot know if the window and aisle seat passengers know each other or booked separately and are not related. So the fact is it's immaterial to you at booking and not something you could base any decision on. If you happen to get on the plane and the window and aisle seat passengers do happen to be traveling together and they offer to give you an aisle or window in place of the middle, that becomes a bonus for you as regardless, you were none the wiser when selecting your seat initially.
And for all you know, them booking that way may have been what enabled you to get on the flight at all. After all, you posted upthread that because this couple booked this way, other people may have then not booked that flight because only middle seats were available, and they booked another flight or another airline altogether. Had the window and middle been occupied, leaving an aisle open, someone else may have booked that seat before you did and filled the flight. But that person was steered away, leaving that seat for you to then be able to book (which despite being a middle, wasn't enough of a turn off to at least prevent you from booking the flight and taking the seat). Does that mean you should be thankful they booked that way instead of upset at their "scam" when their "scam" may well be what enabled you to get on the flight?
Additionally, there's no way to tell if the couple in an aisle and window combo booked it that way initially as well, unless you're checking the seat map literally nonstop, or if they got it that way at the last minute. Such a possibility is two unrelated travelers book the aisle and window in the same row at some point prior to the flight. You then book the middle at some time afterward (but still at least a couple days before the flight). Both the aisle and window seat travelers initially in those seats experience IROPs or SDC or a mix of the two and those seats are now vacant. Then other travelers - now a set of two - either because of SDC or IROPs or who may have had other middle seats on the same flight just looking for better seats or seats at least near each other - the select those seats. They then offer to switch with the person in the middle seat. They may have booked it that way because it's what became available at some point.
"Fair" is relative. Is it "fair" that DMs who qualify for DM on mostly X/V or even mid-level fares, just barely meeting the 15K MQD threshold get uprgaded to FC and get far more benefits over PMs who frequently fly on YBM fares who spend $20K, $25K, $30K, or more on travel in a year? There is no system DL can make that every passenger will view as entirely "fair". DL will do what it views as best for revenue and its overall operation. If that means expanding benefits for those at other elite levels, thus potentially hurting DMs a little, DL will do that. If that means catering more to DMs at the expense of other elite levels, DL will do that (and DL has been doing most of the latter). DL still sells C+ seats and even for PMs & DMs there can be an advantage to buying C+ over just getting the complimentary upgrade (mainly for SDC purposes but also the protection of keeping it due to having paid for it versus it just being an upgrade if there's an equipment swap, IROPs, etc.). This is why despite having status, I frequently pay for FC anyway. No upgrade games. My choice of seats at booking versus leftovers in the UG window. Better SDC flexibility. (Extra MQMs are a bonus).
And for all you know, them booking that way may have been what enabled you to get on the flight at all. After all, you posted upthread that because this couple booked this way, other people may have then not booked that flight because only middle seats were available, and they booked another flight or another airline altogether. Had the window and middle been occupied, leaving an aisle open, someone else may have booked that seat before you did and filled the flight. But that person was steered away, leaving that seat for you to then be able to book (which despite being a middle, wasn't enough of a turn off to at least prevent you from booking the flight and taking the seat). Does that mean you should be thankful they booked that way instead of upset at their "scam" when their "scam" may well be what enabled you to get on the flight?
Additionally, there's no way to tell if the couple in an aisle and window combo booked it that way initially as well, unless you're checking the seat map literally nonstop, or if they got it that way at the last minute. Such a possibility is two unrelated travelers book the aisle and window in the same row at some point prior to the flight. You then book the middle at some time afterward (but still at least a couple days before the flight). Both the aisle and window seat travelers initially in those seats experience IROPs or SDC or a mix of the two and those seats are now vacant. Then other travelers - now a set of two - either because of SDC or IROPs or who may have had other middle seats on the same flight just looking for better seats or seats at least near each other - the select those seats. They then offer to switch with the person in the middle seat. They may have booked it that way because it's what became available at some point.
"Fair" is relative. Is it "fair" that DMs who qualify for DM on mostly X/V or even mid-level fares, just barely meeting the 15K MQD threshold get uprgaded to FC and get far more benefits over PMs who frequently fly on YBM fares who spend $20K, $25K, $30K, or more on travel in a year? There is no system DL can make that every passenger will view as entirely "fair". DL will do what it views as best for revenue and its overall operation. If that means expanding benefits for those at other elite levels, thus potentially hurting DMs a little, DL will do that. If that means catering more to DMs at the expense of other elite levels, DL will do that (and DL has been doing most of the latter). DL still sells C+ seats and even for PMs & DMs there can be an advantage to buying C+ over just getting the complimentary upgrade (mainly for SDC purposes but also the protection of keeping it due to having paid for it versus it just being an upgrade if there's an equipment swap, IROPs, etc.). This is why despite having status, I frequently pay for FC anyway. No upgrade games. My choice of seats at booking versus leftovers in the UG window. Better SDC flexibility. (Extra MQMs are a bonus).
First of all I want to thank you again for being nice
I am the person who does everything possible to avoid the middle seat so I will book flights at times that are not the times that work best for me to get an aisle seat and I will be more than happy to buy economy comfort to get an aisle seat however most of the time on the flights I want none of the seats are
available.
Yes when I had to experience the couple who intentionally booked the window and aisle seat and when the lady was sitting in my middle seat when I went to sit down explained how nice it was of her to switch with me it did not fly with me so yes I made my point so maybe next time they will think twice about not picking the seats they want. Guess what they were the ones who were uncomfortable on the flight and were very quiet so it was a nice flight considering they were probably afraid to stick their arms in my seat.
So when I have to book on another airline to get an aisle seat I question if is it worth me being loyal to Delta because the so- called benefits that are offered to me are not available.
So if the comp upgrades started at 5 days there would be more seats available for purchase and people who need to sit next to each other would most likely pick the seats that they want instead of trying to get an entire row to themselves as free upgrades.
I also buy first class when it is reasonable and I get double miles for it however I will not pay an extra $1,000 for it especially when only window seats are available and the food is not that good so it is not worth it
I will not pay for first class for one hour flights because it is not worth it and I can put up with almost anything for an hour.
What annoys me the most are the ones who posted on this forum stating that they book early for the best seats and they deserve to take the aisle and window to try to keep the middle seat open which is taking advantage of Delta being nice to their companion then if they don’t get to keep the middle seat open they offer to do the monkey in the middle a favor by switching.
I believe Delta started the companion free upgrades because of complaints like “ I am PM & I get a free upgrade and my wife gets stuck in the back of the bus and it is not fair that we can’t sit next to each other” I guess they never thought of if you want to sit togethet pay for it don’t expect a free upgrade
My opinion is if it is the most important thing is to sit next to each other, book seats together, don’t involve others with switching seats
So the ones who are taking advantage of the free upgrades could sit next to each other except they are not taking seats next to each other they are intentionally taking seats they do not want in hope to gain a free middle seat when there is a limited supply of seats available.
I believe It is arrogant and ignorant to post that because PM book early they are elites and that they deserve the best seats as a free upgrade and the DM deserves to sit in the middle for not booking way in advance and I am not saying you said that I am saying others on this thread have admitted this and are proud of their statement.
I am the person who does everything possible to avoid the middle seat so I will book flights at times that are not the times that work best for me to get an aisle seat and I will be more than happy to buy economy comfort to get an aisle seat however most of the time on the flights I want none of the seats are
available.
Yes when I had to experience the couple who intentionally booked the window and aisle seat and when the lady was sitting in my middle seat when I went to sit down explained how nice it was of her to switch with me it did not fly with me so yes I made my point so maybe next time they will think twice about not picking the seats they want. Guess what they were the ones who were uncomfortable on the flight and were very quiet so it was a nice flight considering they were probably afraid to stick their arms in my seat.
So when I have to book on another airline to get an aisle seat I question if is it worth me being loyal to Delta because the so- called benefits that are offered to me are not available.
So if the comp upgrades started at 5 days there would be more seats available for purchase and people who need to sit next to each other would most likely pick the seats that they want instead of trying to get an entire row to themselves as free upgrades.
I also buy first class when it is reasonable and I get double miles for it however I will not pay an extra $1,000 for it especially when only window seats are available and the food is not that good so it is not worth it
I will not pay for first class for one hour flights because it is not worth it and I can put up with almost anything for an hour.
What annoys me the most are the ones who posted on this forum stating that they book early for the best seats and they deserve to take the aisle and window to try to keep the middle seat open which is taking advantage of Delta being nice to their companion then if they don’t get to keep the middle seat open they offer to do the monkey in the middle a favor by switching.
I believe Delta started the companion free upgrades because of complaints like “ I am PM & I get a free upgrade and my wife gets stuck in the back of the bus and it is not fair that we can’t sit next to each other” I guess they never thought of if you want to sit togethet pay for it don’t expect a free upgrade
My opinion is if it is the most important thing is to sit next to each other, book seats together, don’t involve others with switching seats
So the ones who are taking advantage of the free upgrades could sit next to each other except they are not taking seats next to each other they are intentionally taking seats they do not want in hope to gain a free middle seat when there is a limited supply of seats available.
I believe It is arrogant and ignorant to post that because PM book early they are elites and that they deserve the best seats as a free upgrade and the DM deserves to sit in the middle for not booking way in advance and I am not saying you said that I am saying others on this thread have admitted this and are proud of their statement.
Oct 24, 2018, 5:14 pm
#297
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SFO/TPA
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 199
I believe Delta started the companion free upgrades because of complaints like “ I am PM & I get a free upgrade and my wife gets stuck in the back of the bus and it is not fair that we can’t sit next to each other” I guess they never thought of if you want to sit togethet pay for it don’t expect a free upgrade
Oct 24, 2018, 5:30 pm
#298
Join Date: Oct 2018
Programs: Delta marriott
Posts: 30
No. It's about being in the same cabin with your companion, and not having them in row 34 while you're in row 10 enjoying perks that your companion doesn't get in row 34. Or vice versa. Maybe you get to sit together, maybe you don't, but in C+ you're not too far away from each other and you're both having the same experience. When one of you is in the back and one of you is in the front, the free upgrade is a perk that leaves a bad feeling behind. Which defeats the purpose of a perk in the first place. I don't know too many grownups who complain "it is not fair that we can't sit next to each other" after two free upgrades.
Trust me they do complain it is not fair not to sit together and it happens in first class too when a couple is last to get upgraded and they are in window seats in dfferent rows and insist on sitting together instead of being grateful for the free upgrade
it is usually the wife demanding a switch while the husband sits there quiet
if you want the same class experience pay for the same class experience don’t expect to be given freebies all the time and justify it with an entitlement perk that your companion deserves for knowing you
it is usually the wife demanding a switch while the husband sits there quiet
if you want the same class experience pay for the same class experience don’t expect to be given freebies all the time and justify it with an entitlement perk that your companion deserves for knowing you
Oct 24, 2018, 6:12 pm
#299
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SFO/TPA
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 199
Honestly, "not fair" are words I rarely hear come out of an adult's mouth. It is entirely possible to be annoyed, disappointed, or unhappy about something without complaining that it's "unfair." I don't like it when my grocery store is out of something I need and I may be unhappy about it and I may even complain about it, but I wouldn't whine that it's "unfair" because I'm not 6.