UAHater

I'm just wondering why MSP has so few international connections compared to other airports in metropolitan areas of the equivalent size, namely SEA, DTW or DEN. For the record, MSP only has CDG, LHR, AMS and HND with DL, along with a 3x weekly KL to AMS, summer seasonal AF CDG, 4x weekly KEF FI service along with seasonal DL service. There is a weekly Condor service to FRA for a shot summer window, a couple of weekly SY and DL services to beach destinations in Mexico as well as several daily Canadian services with both AC and DL.

Notably missing are year round FRA service and Mexican carriers.

There are several reasons that I can think of:
- Severe seasonal demand fluctuations
- No major urban areas within driving distance
- Overshadowed by ORD
- Relatively small non-white population??

But I also find it surprising given:
- Fortune 500 companies (i.e. 3M, Cargill, etc)
- Major DL hub

Finally, what are the prospects for more international service in the future? Could we see PVG-MSP or HKG-MSP? FRA-MSP? or Volaris/AeroMexico?

kettle1

Welcome to FT.

>>>- Relatively small non-white population??<<< Whatcha talkin' bout Willis?

NOLAnwGOLD

Welcome to FT!

So it is odd, but it seems the model is to get people to international hubs (AMS/CDG and previously NRT). NWA back in the day decided that DTW would be the WorldGateway, which helps likely make connecting the East Coast to International, including bring the Midwest including MSP there.

I thought back in the NWA era there were Glascow, Oslo and Stockholm flights as well from MSP.

Isn't there some Mexican flights especially seasonally to get people out of dodge in the Winter??

flyerCO

MSP used to be NW home. NW connected everything through NRT and onward, or AMS and onward with KL.

DL bought NW. Basically the demand for nonstop to other places isnt there to justify cannibalizing from other DL routes.

PVG can't happen even if they wanted. HKG used to be flown, but now is done through SEA. FRA/FCO sometimes get summer service. However no demans for year round.

If anyone was to add service, AM with the new DL JV would be it.

jiaogulan

I realize there are many corporations there, but in general it doesn't seem like a big enough city to draw much more of an international presence than it has. I mean, hey, the fact you can fly direct to Haneda is pretty damn sweet.

Detroit has the old NW thing going on and ORD is a gateway to the world close by.

bonoman

Yes. I did MSP-CUN N/S 18 months ago. Nice 4 hour flight on an A320.

mot29

Oslo and Stockholm were from MSP, I think. Which makes some sense given the Scandinavian origin population in Minnesota.
I flew NW to Glasgow twice, the first to PIK which I think was non-stop from MSP; the second to GLA but I think that was from BOS.

GUWonder

MSP had the old NW thing going on too, and ORD is way closer to DTW than to MSP.

But as the saying goes: familiarity breeds contempt. And so NW's RA decided to more or less box in MSP after he moved to DL and thereafter acquired NW.

Can't say that I'm surprised that that southern guy RA showed his dislike for Minnesota and NW as he did.

With regard to DL@MSP, the strategy of international routing via its own non-US hubs and/or JV partner hubs -- except perhaps for some peak season seasonal flights -- is about as good as it is going to get again. If it gets even that good again.

3Cforme

None of those destinations were active (not from MSP nor DTW) at the time of the merger in 10/2008. NW's routine for Europe was to run most everyone to AMS. The totality of NW service to Europe was AMS, CDG, FRA, LHR, and FCO - and not all of those were year-round and daily.

Using NRT and AMD so extensively clearly cut down the international destination count, not just MSP's specifically.

The OP ought to play around with Great Circle Mapper to understand why MSP isn't a hub for Latin America or the Caribbean, nor Europe.

jrkmsp

There are about 15 international beach locations flown by DL and SY. A small handful, CUN and one or two others, are flown year-round.

DL has more service to Canada from MSP than any other hub, I believe. That continues.

FRA is served 3x weekly Jun-Sept by Condor.

KEF is served year-round for FI, between 4x and 10x weekly, including with the 767 in the high season. Delta flies daily seasonal, Memorial Day to Labor Day.

AMS is served 2x-3x daily by Delta and 3x weekly by KLM. Rumor has it may go daily in the coming season.

CDG is served daily year-round by DL and daily, seasonal by AF.

LHR is served daily, year-round by DL.

HND is served daily, year-round by DL.

In the JV application, DL and AM said they would add MEX service to MSP if the JV is approved. MEX is the busiest unserved international destination from MSP.

If the DL-KE JV gets approval, I expect a flight to ICN to follow not too long after, sort of like MSP-AMS exists to funnel passengers to Europe.

So, the situation is a little bit better than it’s made out to be, but we up here would certainly welcome more international service.

AANYC1981

It’s Minneapolis

mules

They used to do Rome in the summers. Has that ended?

xliioper

Yes, but it got year-round HNL service (used to be seasonal) -- http://www.startribune.com/from-msp-...ulu/398259041/

Often1

Yes, but HNL is a domestic destination and this is about international!

Don't just look to O&D from to & from MSP but to the value of MSP has a hub. People originate elsewhere, fly to the hub and then onwards. On DL, they have other choices including ATL, DTW, and JFK flying TATL, so why fly to MSP?

In the end, it is all about supply & demand and the PRASM that generates. Whether MSP are a large or small twin city urban area is irrelevant. Has to do with how much demand there is. Could be the size of large international businesses or anything else.

Also, don't forget that mere demand is not enough. Has to be demand for high fare bucket seats on DL. Anyone can fill an aircraft to pretty much anywhere so long as they don't charge much. But, that doesn't make the route profitable.

Add to that the fact that DL only has so many aircraft and the question is always whether to buy/lease more or to take from other routes. If from other routes, which routes would you suggest be cut?

BusTrav8yrs

MSP was the hub for Northwest Orient and DTW was Republic. When they merged they kept both hubs. I don't know why they would keep two hubs so close together, I suspect they kept MSP because it was corporate HQ for NW.

Honestly they could de-hub MSP and not suffer and may do so in the future.