DL to buy 10% of AFKL and AFKL to buy 31% of VS
Jul 27, 2017, 12:10 pm
#16
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DL will have 49% voting shares assuming that all shares have voting rights and AFKL will have 31% voting shares. DL does not, in theory, gain voting shares in VS because it owns 10% of the AFKL shares. It may be able to exert influence on how AFKL votes, but one cannot do the equation which you offered with any validity.
Jul 27, 2017, 12:12 pm
#17
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Jul 27, 2017, 12:57 pm
#19
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Just found this on Twitter from Richard Branson...2 key takeaways for me.
1) It seems that VS and AF/KL are seeking to be part of 1 big JV with DL instead of 2 separate ones...that could be interesting given the slots that AF/KL have a LHR.
2) seems to me that come Christmas RB gets to knee Willie Walsh in the balls...and RB intends to collect on that debt!
https://www.virgin.com/richard-brans...irgin-atlantic
1) It seems that VS and AF/KL are seeking to be part of 1 big JV with DL instead of 2 separate ones...that could be interesting given the slots that AF/KL have a LHR.
2) seems to me that come Christmas RB gets to knee Willie Walsh in the balls...and RB intends to collect on that debt!
https://www.virgin.com/richard-brans...irgin-atlantic
Jul 27, 2017, 1:09 pm
#20
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I think the most interesting thing from that post is his mention of AF/KL bringing feed from Europe. It is possible he simply means Paris, Amsterdam, Milan, & Rome (and there is certainly some non-minimal feed possibilities from those key markets), but is there maybe some intention to leverage AF/KL slots and planes to add a few other spokes to the LHR hub?
Jul 27, 2017, 1:11 pm
#21
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I think the most interesting thing from that post is his mention of AF/KL bringing feed from Europe. It is possible he simply means Paris, Amsterdam, Milan, & Rome (and there is certainly some non-minimal feed possibilities from those key markets), but is there maybe some intention to leverage AF/KL slots and planes to add a few other spokes to the LHR hub?
BUT if there is one unified JV between DL/AF/KL/VS then at least to me it would make some sense to re-allocate some of the ~10 LHR/AMS and ~7 LHR/CDG daily flights to something else. TBH I don't know if it's allowed to say take a slot from LHR/AMS and change it to LHR/CVG which would alter the calculus.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:18 pm
#22
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VS and AF/KL linking up in an increasing fashion would definitely be noteworthy for TATL Skyteam flyers (on both ends of the pond). Up to now, the VS and DL relationship seemed to bypass AF/KL mostly..I'd expect that to end now.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:18 pm
#23
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BUT if there is one unified JV between DL/AF/KL/VS then at least to me it would make some sense to re-allocate some of the ~10 LHR/AMS and ~7 LHR/CDG daily flights to something else. TBH I don't know if it's allowed to say take a slot from LHR/AMS and change it to LHR/CVG which would alter the calculus.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:30 pm
#24
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In the 1990s Swissair initiated the controversial “Hunter Strategy”, a major expansion programme devised by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. Using this strategy, Swissair aimed to grow its market share through the acquisition of small airlines rather than entering into alliance agreements. Swissair decided to acquire 49.5 percent of the very successful Italian charter airline Air Europe, the unprofitable Belgian flag carrier, Sabena, and significant stakes in the carriers Air Liberté, AOM, Air Littoral, Volare, LOT, Turkish Airlines, South African Airways, Portugalia and LTU...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair#Hunter_Strategy
Jul 27, 2017, 1:33 pm
#25
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I really don't know how much DL/VS/AF/KL would benefit moving LHR slots to other European cities. I'm just not sure how many people they'd get to connect through LHR on VS/DL, when to me it would make a ton more sense to keep those people who want to fly ST, funneled through AMS/CDG anyway.
Plus I'd rather connect in AMS/CDG 10 times out of 10 than deal with an LHR connection especially if I had to switch terminals.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:36 pm
#26
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With 10 flights per day, if it's allowed to switch to a TATL flight, I'm sure they can find a way to make it work.
I really don't know how much DL/VS/AF/KL would benefit moving LHR slots to other European cities. I'm just not sure how many people they'd get to connect through LHR on VS/DL, when to me it would make a ton more sense to keep those people who want to fly ST, funneled through AMS/CDG anyway.
Plus I'd rather connect in AMS/CDG 10 times out of 10 than deal with an LHR connection especially if I had to switch terminals.
I really don't know how much DL/VS/AF/KL would benefit moving LHR slots to other European cities. I'm just not sure how many people they'd get to connect through LHR on VS/DL, when to me it would make a ton more sense to keep those people who want to fly ST, funneled through AMS/CDG anyway.
Plus I'd rather connect in AMS/CDG 10 times out of 10 than deal with an LHR connection especially if I had to switch terminals.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:43 pm
#27
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we’re unable to enjoy feed from Europe or provide extra onward journeys for those customers we are now carrying to London. To address this we’ve been in discussions with Delta’s partners in Europe, Air France and KLM, to give us that network and connections
Jul 27, 2017, 1:49 pm
#28
Join Date: Mar 2011
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I believe it has far more to do with a combined joint venture than just that.
In addition, Delta did not sell any of its stake to AF-KLM.
To wit:
"China Eastern, a Delta partner, will also acquire 10% of Air France-KLM, while Air France will in turn buy a 31% stake in Virgin Atlantic from parent Virgin Group."
In addition, Delta did not sell any of its stake to AF-KLM.
To wit:
"China Eastern, a Delta partner, will also acquire 10% of Air France-KLM, while Air France will in turn buy a 31% stake in Virgin Atlantic from parent Virgin Group."
So DL has controlling majority, putting aside any ability to influence the AFKL 31%.
Jul 27, 2017, 1:51 pm
#29
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They weren't thought to be stupid in Zurich, either, but there's a precedent for a really bad outcome holding non-controlling stakes of multiple carriers.
In the 1990s Swissair initiated the controversial “Hunter Strategy”, a major expansion programme devised by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. Using this strategy, Swissair aimed to grow its market share through the acquisition of small airlines rather than entering into alliance agreements. Swissair decided to acquire 49.5 percent of the very successful Italian charter airline Air Europe, the unprofitable Belgian flag carrier, Sabena, and significant stakes in the carriers Air Liberté, AOM, Air Littoral, Volare, LOT, Turkish Airlines, South African Airways, Portugalia and LTU...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair#Hunter_Strategy
In the 1990s Swissair initiated the controversial “Hunter Strategy”, a major expansion programme devised by the consulting firm McKinsey & Co. Using this strategy, Swissair aimed to grow its market share through the acquisition of small airlines rather than entering into alliance agreements. Swissair decided to acquire 49.5 percent of the very successful Italian charter airline Air Europe, the unprofitable Belgian flag carrier, Sabena, and significant stakes in the carriers Air Liberté, AOM, Air Littoral, Volare, LOT, Turkish Airlines, South African Airways, Portugalia and LTU...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair#Hunter_Strategy
At this point in time DL is so entwined with AF/KL in the TATL business that a collapse on the AF/KL side would be extremely damaging to DL anyway - share ownership or not. This may give them a certain amount of say in creating conditions on the AF/KL side that make a collapse unlikely.
Jul 27, 2017, 2:04 pm
#30
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Unless the new JV comes up with a few hundred more slots, they aren't going to be able to hold a candle to BA for LHR connection traffic.
I just don't think it' worth it when there are already 2 established connection options that have lower taxes and are for the most part easier to connect through.