Sep 26, 2017, 1:09 pm
Last edit by: Renes Points
On 26SEPT17 Delta changed the MQD AMEX exempt requirements. $25,000 only exempts you to Platinum or lower. $250,000 spend needed across ALL the DL AMEX cards you hold (personal and business in your name) for Diamond exemption for 2019 elite year.
If all you are interested in is the discussion starting when the announcement occurred on Tuesday, September 26, 2017, start here.
The Delta announcement is here https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/news-and-updates.html
There are many data points that Delta will allow a one time exception under the 2017 qualification rules if you request this for the 2019 Medallion year.
If all you are interested in is the discussion starting when the announcement occurred on Tuesday, September 26, 2017, start here.
The Delta announcement is here https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/skymiles/news-and-updates.html
There are many data points that Delta will allow a one time exception under the 2017 qualification rules if you request this for the 2019 Medallion year.
Delta increasing Diamond MQD Waiver to $250,000
Oct 1, 2017, 9:06 am
#1306
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 799
This is wrong.
$250,000 spend on, for example, a regular AmEx Plat charge card would get at least 250,000 MR points, which are typically worth about $2,500 (at one cent per point).
If AmEx gets about 3% or less in merchant fees, they're not going to give a 10% rebate except possibly for some special promo or welcome offer.
$250,000 spend on, for example, a regular AmEx Plat charge card would get at least 250,000 MR points, which are typically worth about $2,500 (at one cent per point).
If AmEx gets about 3% or less in merchant fees, they're not going to give a 10% rebate except possibly for some special promo or welcome offer.
Oct 1, 2017, 11:18 am
#1309
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Oct 1, 2017, 11:19 am
#1310
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,756
Oct 1, 2017, 11:20 am
#1311
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,375
Oct 1, 2017, 11:37 am
#1312
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Beverly Hills, CA
Programs: DL DM & 2MM, UA-PE, AA
Posts: 1,074
I plan to move my business elsewhere in 2018. I don't know how unique my case is, but I see AX as the biggest looser (about $100k between me and my wife who also has a Reserve card).
Background: I have been a Delta Medallion for about 15years at the PM and DM level and I fly about 80k BIS miles a year and purchase a good number of First/BE class which means that I am a ~100k+ MQM flyer. The AX reserve card provided me the extra MQMs to be Diamond which I have been since its introduction.
Impact: DL will loose my $9k business next year, except for a few flights purchased with upgrade certificates. AX will loose all my business.
Background: I have been a Delta Medallion for about 15years at the PM and DM level and I fly about 80k BIS miles a year and purchase a good number of First/BE class which means that I am a ~100k+ MQM flyer. The AX reserve card provided me the extra MQMs to be Diamond which I have been since its introduction.
Impact: DL will loose my $9k business next year, except for a few flights purchased with upgrade certificates. AX will loose all my business.
Oct 1, 2017, 11:49 am
#1313
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
I'm sticking with Delta for operational reasons. They are simply the BEST large U.S. airline for on-time and non-cancellation performance, without being notably more expensive. That's what really matters to all of us. Frequent-flyer issues are secondary. Having said that, I am sad to have to drop, in 2019, from DM to PM. It's been nice!
Bruce
Bruce
Oct 1, 2017, 12:33 pm
#1314
Join Date: Oct 2000
Programs: DL DM 2MM, AA Gold MM, Hilton LTD, Marriott LTP, Hertz PC
Posts: 639
Considering I fly about 40 weeks a year domestically for work, the spending requirement can be tough. If I had not used several VDB vouchers for personal travel I would have been very close on the spending requirement. Thankfully, using them counts toward the 15k
Oct 1, 2017, 1:06 pm
#1315
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,417
Do the DM and PM choice benefits $200 off vouchers count for MQDs? [I've never had to worry about this, so I never paid attention to it.]
Oct 1, 2017, 2:25 pm
#1316
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DFW or Somewhere Else
Programs: UA Plt /Delta DM/ Marriott Platinum Prem./Hilton Diamond / Hyatt Globalist /Hertz PS / National EE
Posts: 1,107
I plan to move my business elsewhere in 2018. I don't know how unique my case is, but I see AX as the biggest looser (about $100k between me and my wife who also has a Reserve card).
Background: I have been a Delta Medallion for about 15years at the PM and DM level and I fly about 80k BIS miles a year and purchase a good number of First/BE class which means that I am a ~100k+ MQM flyer. The AX reserve card provided me the extra MQMs to be Diamond which I have been since its introduction.
Impact: DL will loose my $9k business next year, except for a few flights purchased with upgrade certificates. AX will loose all my business.
Background: I have been a Delta Medallion for about 15years at the PM and DM level and I fly about 80k BIS miles a year and purchase a good number of First/BE class which means that I am a ~100k+ MQM flyer. The AX reserve card provided me the extra MQMs to be Diamond which I have been since its introduction.
Impact: DL will loose my $9k business next year, except for a few flights purchased with upgrade certificates. AX will loose all my business.
Oct 1, 2017, 4:44 pm
#1317
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toledo, OH
Programs: Delta DM & MM, Hilton DM, Marriott gold, Hyatt Globalist, Alaska 75K, Wyndham Diamond,
Posts: 15,399
Doesn't the vouchers for taking a VDB count toward the MQD spend? I've never paid attention in the past since I've always relied on the Am Ex waiver. Might be a good reason for someone not to accept VDB's if the vouchers won't count toward MQD requirement
Oct 1, 2017, 6:46 pm
#1318
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL USA
Programs: Delta DM/Amex Reserve 2 Million Miler
Posts: 398
On a recent domestic First purchase of $678 only $588 of the ticket actually counts toward the Diamond $15,000 in annual spend so basically 13 % of the money spent doesn't count so you really have to spend about $17,250 to be left with $15,000 MQD's ....so everybody the number is $17,250 in domestic spending to make Diamond not $15,000 and it's even higher if you travel internationally since taxes make up more than 13% of the ticket cost.
You have to spend just under $1500 per month on average to make Diamond
...and pay with miles does not count toward MQD's just MQM's so Delta has probably gutted the Diamond ranks more than really intended to..corporate travel budgets are not gonna go for this money grab
Having so many people thinking they were important as a Diamond was a draw/gimmick for the skymiles program which as we know skymiles is a profit center and amex is a profit center...BTW thinking you were more important than you really were was a great marketing concept for the program...it made a lot of people just have to get the Diamond
I think this time they (Delta) bit off more than can chew and the incremental gain from some Diamonds in 2018 higher spend will no where offset the loss from the Diamonds they lose....and the Amex skymiles profit decline as well
You have to spend just under $1500 per month on average to make Diamond
...and pay with miles does not count toward MQD's just MQM's so Delta has probably gutted the Diamond ranks more than really intended to..corporate travel budgets are not gonna go for this money grab
Having so many people thinking they were important as a Diamond was a draw/gimmick for the skymiles program which as we know skymiles is a profit center and amex is a profit center...BTW thinking you were more important than you really were was a great marketing concept for the program...it made a lot of people just have to get the Diamond
I think this time they (Delta) bit off more than can chew and the incremental gain from some Diamonds in 2018 higher spend will no where offset the loss from the Diamonds they lose....and the Amex skymiles profit decline as well
Oct 1, 2017, 6:57 pm
#1319
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: GRB
Programs: DL PM
Posts: 309
The answer is that the airline needs both to make the flights work. Take a mostly empty Seattle to Shanghai flight: the $7500 J traveler upfront is definitely valuable to Delta. But they were going to fly anyway, or else they wouldn’t have booked a ticket that expensive based mainly on date and schedule. Courting loyalty from that passenger doesn’t inspire additional trips - at most, it will get them to choose Delta when they are one of many options.
On the other hand, a fare conscious leisure traveler can be motivated by points programs. I can be convinced to take extra trips I wouldn’t otherwise have planned on mostly empty flights - so while my $550 fare on SEA-PVG seems minimal, it’s also revenue that didn’t exist without SkyMiles because I wouldn’t have been taking the trip. And I can be escalated - while I never would have considered it in my pre-FlyerTalk days, I now routinely buy discounted business class fares (and those are even more likely to help the bottom line).
The weirder part is that it’s all interconnected. I am well below 15k MQD a year; my wife is well above. She flew Alaska beforehand and switched allegiance because I convinced her to - so my low revenue travel indirectly benefited them by me being an influencer on others.
Long story short, they need all of our business - not just the high rollers, and not just the kettles. It takes a lot of people to fill a 250 seat plane every day...
On the other hand, a fare conscious leisure traveler can be motivated by points programs. I can be convinced to take extra trips I wouldn’t otherwise have planned on mostly empty flights - so while my $550 fare on SEA-PVG seems minimal, it’s also revenue that didn’t exist without SkyMiles because I wouldn’t have been taking the trip. And I can be escalated - while I never would have considered it in my pre-FlyerTalk days, I now routinely buy discounted business class fares (and those are even more likely to help the bottom line).
The weirder part is that it’s all interconnected. I am well below 15k MQD a year; my wife is well above. She flew Alaska beforehand and switched allegiance because I convinced her to - so my low revenue travel indirectly benefited them by me being an influencer on others.
Long story short, they need all of our business - not just the high rollers, and not just the kettles. It takes a lot of people to fill a 250 seat plane every day...
1) I look for very short trips on Delta when I otherwise would have limited vacations to longer periods a few times a year.
2) Unless the fare is unusually high, I don’t bother comparing to other carriers. I just book Delta.
If I do end up dropping down to PM for 2019 (and beyond), I can foresee:
1) Cancelling my DL Reserve card (and keeping gold or platinum) in favor of the AMEX Platinum for lounge access.
2) Being less likely to take as many trips as I have been.
3) Being more likely to shop other airlines, especially once the MQMs for PM are assured.
Presumably that decrease in business is worth taking away my GUCs, etc.
P.S. I do occasionally purchase business class fares when they’re on sale. However, when flying premium cabin, I see little incentive to stay within my loyalty alliance. Those reedamable miles still find good homes since they can be topped up with convertible currencies.
Oct 1, 2017, 8:36 pm
#1320
Join Date: Apr 2009
Programs: DL DM 3MM
Posts: 127
I think I am one of the DMs Delta want's to keep - Since 1/2014, I have ~$140k MQD's, over 1k MQS's and today I have over 725k MQM's banked. 95%+ of my travel is domestic. I almost always buy discounted F tickets so the upgrades aren't a big deal (heck, I tried to use my RUC's and I only cleared 50% of the time (2 for 4)). My draw is GUC's - I use them for my vacations. Based on my past travel I have no problem keeping DM - but, now I am going to try other airlines (I just bought 2 discounted F tickets on United - I haven't flown United in over 20 years! Had to sign up for a new FF account with them today.)
Why look elsewhere?
Because I was using my vast MQM cache to compensate for the "pathetic" MM benefits offered (I am at 2.3MM, would hit 3MM within a few years) - no DM possible at all and PM at 4M? Ugh. - my strategy was to build tons of MQM's and when I retire in 15 or so years, then I could effectively be DM for many years thereafter...
I now feel liberated - The 2 United FC tickets I bought are ~20% less than I was paying for DL discounted F. I am sure there are times United will be more, so then I will use Delta if they are really close or less expensive. Now, I plan to shop out FC and get the product I want for the least amount without expecting loyalty. I was loyal prior to this change and now I see the light. My plan for 2019 is to be 1K United and DL DM - with my spend level it makes no sense to spend all $30k in one year with Delta if that will get me the same benefit as $12,500 will since rollover is effectively useless. DL is capping my value to them at $12,500 per year and I plan to only spend that and spend on other airlines to get their top-tier benefits too. For $30k of spend I can get global upgrades on 2 airlines and have options.
One other point is that miles to me are really reduced in value too - they don't get you MQMs or MQDs (they didn't before, but since there is effectively is no more DM waiver free flights are now worse) - so I plan to cancel my DL Reserve card, keep my platinum only for DL airfare purchases and move over to the Chase Sapphire card for my other purchases. Using their Chase points to pay for travel will let me accumulate both MQMs and MQDs so I will only use miles for my kids or others who currently no chance of getting any status (they are still in high school and only travel for leisure)...
Why look elsewhere?
Because I was using my vast MQM cache to compensate for the "pathetic" MM benefits offered (I am at 2.3MM, would hit 3MM within a few years) - no DM possible at all and PM at 4M? Ugh. - my strategy was to build tons of MQM's and when I retire in 15 or so years, then I could effectively be DM for many years thereafter...
I now feel liberated - The 2 United FC tickets I bought are ~20% less than I was paying for DL discounted F. I am sure there are times United will be more, so then I will use Delta if they are really close or less expensive. Now, I plan to shop out FC and get the product I want for the least amount without expecting loyalty. I was loyal prior to this change and now I see the light. My plan for 2019 is to be 1K United and DL DM - with my spend level it makes no sense to spend all $30k in one year with Delta if that will get me the same benefit as $12,500 will since rollover is effectively useless. DL is capping my value to them at $12,500 per year and I plan to only spend that and spend on other airlines to get their top-tier benefits too. For $30k of spend I can get global upgrades on 2 airlines and have options.
One other point is that miles to me are really reduced in value too - they don't get you MQMs or MQDs (they didn't before, but since there is effectively is no more DM waiver free flights are now worse) - so I plan to cancel my DL Reserve card, keep my platinum only for DL airfare purchases and move over to the Chase Sapphire card for my other purchases. Using their Chase points to pay for travel will let me accumulate both MQMs and MQDs so I will only use miles for my kids or others who currently no chance of getting any status (they are still in high school and only travel for leisure)...