Exit Row "willing AND ABLE"
Feb 27, 2017, 9:59 am
#61
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,685
You can both need a wheelchair, and be able to use an exit row, it's that simple.
Feb 27, 2017, 10:08 am
#62
Join Date: May 2009
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I emailed customer service asking if this was an appropriate response to wearing what amounts to a simple rubber glove and got a reply back that basically said cabin crew judgment is final and they weren't going to second guess it... and while I think this particular F/A made the wrong call, I respect that approach to safety.
Long story short - crew discretion is broad here. Delta is not going to seat a wheelchair user in an exit row, and as others have pointed out they have the legal right to make a professional judgment call about who gets to sit in those seats.
(Before we go three round trips of argument, I'm sure it's happened before - perhaps for someone who gets winded or walks slowly when traveling a mile or more through an airport, but who meets the mobility requirements for opening a door. Again, the crew's discretion applies. But wheelchair use is a pretty good heuristic for being impermissible in the exit row.)
Feb 27, 2017, 10:23 am
#63
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA
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Posts: 500
Every major study done on survivability in an aviation disaster demonstrates that 100% adherence to safety rules is a major factor in outcomes. It is not about each particular aspect of the rules, but rather about training and taking it all seriously.
Thus, life vests may not matter on a flight which does not have an over-water segment (although I suppose there is always a lake or river somewhere), but the fact is that when training is drummed into the crew, the crew take it seriously, enforce it and do not get into disputes with passengers who all seem to know better (just look at this thread), things go better overall.
The fact that someone with an infant is seated at the exit window and that is not spotted by the FA and you comment on it here means that you saw it, knew that it was an issue and apparently did not raise it.
It was your safety at risk. This is not about someone sneaking up to C+ or grabbing a beer off the cart, but your safety.
So, hit the call button or raise the issue discretely.
Thus, life vests may not matter on a flight which does not have an over-water segment (although I suppose there is always a lake or river somewhere), but the fact is that when training is drummed into the crew, the crew take it seriously, enforce it and do not get into disputes with passengers who all seem to know better (just look at this thread), things go better overall.
The fact that someone with an infant is seated at the exit window and that is not spotted by the FA and you comment on it here means that you saw it, knew that it was an issue and apparently did not raise it.
It was your safety at risk. This is not about someone sneaking up to C+ or grabbing a beer off the cart, but your safety.
So, hit the call button or raise the issue discretely.
I can understand your concern, but your assumption isn't correct.
Feb 27, 2017, 11:05 am
#64
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
14 CFR §382.41 What flight-related information must carriers provide to qualified individuals with a disability?
As a carrier, you must provide the following information, on request, to qualified individuals with a disability or persons making inquiries on their behalf concerning the accessibility of the aircraft expected to make a particular flight. The information you provide must be specific to the aircraft you expect to use for the flight unless it is unfeasible for you to do so (e.g., because unpredictable circumstances such as weather or a mechanical problem require substitution of another aircraft that could affect the location or availability of an accommodation). The required information is:
(b) The specific location of seats (i.e., by row and seat number) that the carrier, consistent with this part, does not make available to passengers with a disability (e.g., exit row seats);
14 CFR §382.87 What other requirements pertain to seating for passengers with a disability?
(b) In responding to requests from individuals for accommodations under this subpart, you must comply with FAA and applicable foreign government safety requirements, including those pertaining to exit seating (see 14 CFR 121.585 and 135.129).
14 CFR § 121.585 Exit seating.
(b) No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section because -
(1) The person lacks sufficient mobility, strength, or dexterity in both arms and hands, and both legs:
(i) To reach upward, sideways, and downward to the location of emergency exit and exit-slide operating mechanisms;
(ii) To grasp and push, pull, turn, or otherwise manipulate those mechanisms;
(iii) To push, shove, pull, or otherwise open emergency exits;
(iv) To lift out, hold, deposit on nearby seats, or maneuver over the seatbacks to the next row objects the size and weight of over-wing window exit doors;
(v) To remove obstructions similar in size and weight to over-wing exit doors;
(vi) To reach the emergency exit expeditiously;
(vii) To maintain balance while removing obstructions;
(viii) To exit expeditiously;
(ix) To stabilize an escape slide after deployment; or
(x) To assist others in getting off an escape slide;
As a carrier, you must provide the following information, on request, to qualified individuals with a disability or persons making inquiries on their behalf concerning the accessibility of the aircraft expected to make a particular flight. The information you provide must be specific to the aircraft you expect to use for the flight unless it is unfeasible for you to do so (e.g., because unpredictable circumstances such as weather or a mechanical problem require substitution of another aircraft that could affect the location or availability of an accommodation). The required information is:
(b) The specific location of seats (i.e., by row and seat number) that the carrier, consistent with this part, does not make available to passengers with a disability (e.g., exit row seats);
14 CFR §382.87 What other requirements pertain to seating for passengers with a disability?
(b) In responding to requests from individuals for accommodations under this subpart, you must comply with FAA and applicable foreign government safety requirements, including those pertaining to exit seating (see 14 CFR 121.585 and 135.129).
14 CFR § 121.585 Exit seating.
(b) No certificate holder may seat a person in a seat affected by this section if the certificate holder determines that it is likely that the person would be unable to perform one or more of the applicable functions listed in paragraph (d) of this section because -
(1) The person lacks sufficient mobility, strength, or dexterity in both arms and hands, and both legs:
(i) To reach upward, sideways, and downward to the location of emergency exit and exit-slide operating mechanisms;
(ii) To grasp and push, pull, turn, or otherwise manipulate those mechanisms;
(iii) To push, shove, pull, or otherwise open emergency exits;
(iv) To lift out, hold, deposit on nearby seats, or maneuver over the seatbacks to the next row objects the size and weight of over-wing window exit doors;
(v) To remove obstructions similar in size and weight to over-wing exit doors;
(vi) To reach the emergency exit expeditiously;
(vii) To maintain balance while removing obstructions;
(viii) To exit expeditiously;
(ix) To stabilize an escape slide after deployment; or
(x) To assist others in getting off an escape slide;
Feb 27, 2017, 11:12 am
#65
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Feb 27, 2017, 12:19 pm
#66
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Exactly. I mean I see the point that Ysitincoach is making, in that you could probably come up with a hypothetical situation where someone needs to pre-board (for some definition of "need") but would be capable of handling exit row duties. However I also bet that if it came to any sort of court case the airlines would be given pretty wide latitude in making the determination, and that "preboard -> no exit row" is a reasonable approximation.
Feb 27, 2017, 12:34 pm
#67
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Mar 2, 2017, 2:19 pm
#68
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The language thing is simply this, for Delta or most other carriers, the passenger should be able to understand instructions in the local language of the carrier or English. The idea being that on a flight from let's say MAD-ATL, the pax should speak English or Spanish, especially as there are normally two language speaker FA's on the flight.
Personally on the rare occasions that I see either a young kid or someone infirm or otherwise not supposed to be sitting in an EE, I simply ask for the purser, and inform him or her, they generally go over assess the situation and move them. On the very rare occasion that they are unwilling to do it, I ask them for their name for the FAA/CAA whatever letter that I will be writing, and then they inevitably do it immediately.
Personally on the rare occasions that I see either a young kid or someone infirm or otherwise not supposed to be sitting in an EE, I simply ask for the purser, and inform him or her, they generally go over assess the situation and move them. On the very rare occasion that they are unwilling to do it, I ask them for their name for the FAA/CAA whatever letter that I will be writing, and then they inevitably do it immediately.
Mar 2, 2017, 2:27 pm
#70
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Mar 2, 2017, 2:54 pm
#71
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This must be very recent or not uniformly recognized, as I just two weeks ago watched someone who didn't speak English get moved out of an exit row by a DL FA.
Mar 2, 2017, 2:56 pm
#72
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Mar 2, 2017, 3:15 pm
#73
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,881
There needs to be an LOD FA onboard who speaks the passenger's language in order to remain eligible for the exit row.