Productivity

Nevermind... this is going nowhere. Good luck OP, have fun battling this one out in court if you want to listen to people here.

I think your best bet is try to sell this to an EU261/2004 claims shop. Yes you will lose some money if they win, but at least you don't have to turn up in France/get legal counsel yourself. If they won't touch it, I would suggest it's a reasonable recommendation that you won't win.

GUWonder

Why even shop this in France? AF denied transport in/from the UK -- not in/from France -- on the US-Africa trip on a DL-issued ticket from the US.

The OP can rather easily and cheaply complain about AF to even the US DOT -- not that I'd expect a whole lot of gain to come out of that either even if the AF flights were DL codeshares.

AntonS

What if OP is delayed and misses his connection in JNB or arrives to JNB and his connecting flight on a separate ticket is cancelled? What if next available flight is only in 2 days? If new ticket is too expensive? If credit card denies OP new ticket charges in the foreign country? etc etc.

=> There are many IRROPs scenarios in which the customer would be stuck in JNB and AF would be responsible.

The real mistake was on Delta by accepting pax in JFK. Since they already flew part of their itinerary, it was probably a good idea to take the risk and allow them to continue (as opposed to sending pax back to JFK), which exactly what VS did - kudos to them, but you can not blame AF for taking the hard line either.

I doubt you would get any compensation, but your best bet is probably Delta, because they "wrongfully" accepted you on the first flight, which created stressful situation in Heathrow and additional expenses. Can you Show that if Delta denied you boarding in JFK, it would be less stressful / less costly?

erik123

From the Home Ministry:


Re: Transit Querry

Thank you for writing to the Department of Home Affairs Contact Centre.

The birth certificate will not be required, provided you do not leave the transit area.

Also refer to the Exemptions (section 2) on the link below:

http://www.dha.gov.za/index.php/stat...ve-1-june-2015

For further clarity, please reply to this email or contact our Contact Centre on 0800 60 11 90.

Kind regards,

Mr. xxx
Case Resolution Clerk
Home Affairs Contact Centre

---
Hello,

I would like to know if a parent with a child under 18 traveling via air from France via JNB to Harare on two separate airline tickets, without entering South Africa, will need to produce a birth certificate.

Thank you,

LondonElite

How does all this 'after the fact' stuff help the OP?

denizenxix

How did telling everyone here I was wrong about my interpretation of the ZA laws help me?

theddo

So far nobody has said you were wrong, but that doesn't mean AF was either.

LondonElite

Well, we debated it for a while, you got answers that fell into two camps, and then you got a clear reply from AF. If you wish to pursue, either try EC261 or the legal process. In my opinion the former is painless, but both will be pointless.

GUWonder

I have some doubts about the accuracy of both parts of the above.

The OP did what South Africa allows and yet AF denied transport by AF based on AF agent's/agents' flawed understanding of South African policy/practice with regard to transiting South Africa using multiple tickets.

AF denied transport despite the South African Home Ministry explicitly allowing airside transits for minors without birth certificates whether the travel is completed by using one ticket or by using multiple tickets. AF seems to have messed up. And even if AF policy is to ignore South African legal allowances to transit South Africa on separate tickets, it doesn't make AF policy right even in the eyes of the laws applicable to the OP's travels that had at least initially included AF.

Whether or not it's worth going after AF for AF's wrongful act in denying transport is a decision for the OP. I'd say it's not worth the effort, if I were the one denied under such circumstances; but if I had plenty of time and felt aggrieved enough, I'd consider pursuing AF since it's not guaranteed to be futile either.

hfly

The initial way to deal with this would be to escalate it at AF by hitting a VP or so with and not just threatening your next action but stating exactly what you expect. I think you might find that if you are just going for direct compensation for your expenses that this might get resolved quite quickly. As for whatever someone said above about French court, that is silly, this could in fact be handled in a small claims court in the US, would cost you less than $50 and a few hours of your time, but that is still a few steps away.

BTW to whoever bleated in last, DL did nothing at all wrong here.

denizenxix

Really?!? Have we been reading the same thread? They're some very committed voices here that made it abundantly clear that they KNEW, not thought, that I screwed up. The message from Home Affairs should at least end that argument.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

I would escalate your original communication to AF, perhaps with a sentence at the beginning that you want this directly referred to their legal department.

Otherwise it gets stuck in customer service who (a) aren't expected to be up to speed on legal issues and (b) will focus on damage control (theirs, not yours unfortunately).

AF check-in staff could have phoned through to JNB immigration control if they weren't sure (not uncommon where there is doubt in cases like these).

theddo

I haven't read that, what I have read is people saying it's probably reasonable for AF to require the necessary documentation for the booked ticket - and deny boarding if you lack any of them, regardless of where you may have intended to travel.

Especially given that the embassy actually said you needed it.

GUWonder

I think hfly's suggestion is best.

I'd first push for AF to cover the additional expenses by telling AF what is expected to make things right. A voucher for X amount for future travel may be considered acceptable perhaps to all. Unless and until that kind of thing doesn't work out, I'd suggest keeping lawyers and mentions of the legal department out of it unless really wanting to go down that route and to escalate the issue.

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Might be worth a second shot. I was mindful that AF customer service has already responded, and there will be a file with notes on it. Referring to legal doesn't necessarily require a legal escalation - just for legal to give internal advice so customer service can proceed with appropriate compensation.