ClipperDelta

Believe it or not, as of today, Delta has ordered more (new) aircraft from Boeing than any other manufacturer in the last five years:

Aircraft: Date Ordered: Number:

739 Aug 2011 100
A333 Sep 2013 10
A321 Sep 2013 30
A321 Jun 2014 15
A350 Nov 2014 25
A339 Nov 2014 25
739 Dec 2015 20
CS100 Apr 2016 75

Totals by Manufacturer:

Boeing: 120
Airbus: 105
Bombardier: 75

avcritic

It is a gift from RA to Boeing/EXIM/Washington State for selling heavily subsidized planes to ME3, which in-turn are used to dump capacity on US.

B787 program never going to make a profit, B737MAX never going to catch up with A32xNEO.

B777X program with 11 Billion subsidy (WS- $8 B + EXIM-$3 B) has 300+ orders. If 777X program goes belly up for any reason, guess who will be filing for Chapter 11.

If B787 with record sales cannot make a profit, how would one expect B777X to brake even and make profit.

IMHO Boeing made a strategic mistake by ignoring US Carriers.

hurnik

Dumb questions:

Are these going to replace any CRJ? (if anyone knows/speculates)
Are there any specs regarding the 2-cabin layouts? (ie seat pitch/width for FC/Bus. vs Coach)?

The few pictures I could pull up look like the FC portion is nicer than the CRJ, but I don't know for sure.

SJC ORD LDR

A CRJ is the most miserable piece of garbage that is considered airworthy. Nothing can be worse than a CRJ.

Longboater

Enough with your anti-Boeing drivel! While it will be very difficult for Boeing to reach ROI for the Dreamliner, its making money for the company. It took the 747-400 for Boeing to receive the ROI for the 747 programme. The technology used on the Dreamliner will be used on the 777X when it becomes available in a few years. The 777X is not a design just for the ME3. (Explain why LH is ordering over 30 of these planes then, hint, not because of hidden subsidies.) That would be the A380. Its a niche aircraft for operators except for one carrier, Emirates.

The 777X programme is not going to go belly up. The 737 programme will go belly up before the 777X. Its immediate predecessor, the 77W has been wildly successful, in fact the variant is the best selling widebody aircraft in history. The only reason the 77L did not sell as well as anticipated was because the 77W vastly beat its design estimates, thus killing a good chunk of the market for the plane. There is a huge demand for the 777X. The 77W has done so well and due to prolonged low oil prices, the need for the 777X is not a must at this point. But next decade, orders will start piling up for the 777X.

Airbus has been unable to come up with a proper response, considering they designed the A350 to be nine abreast instead of the ten abreast that has come to dominate the 77W market. (Remember the A340-600? Airbus couldn't sell 100 of these planes and many ten year old A346s are awaiting the scrap yard.) The 777X is well on its way to beating the A35J market to the point where Airbus is floating around the "A350-8000", just an idea like the 747-500/600 was for years, to potential buyers.

While the 737 MAX is behind the A320 NEO, its not like the programme is a flop. The 737 7 MAX and A319 NEO are both DOA. The 737 8 MAX has a strong future and the 737 9 MAX has received a good amount of interest.

In regards to the middle of the market aircraft, the US3 are lukewarm to Airbus's replacement for TATL 757 routes in the form of the A321NEO LR. While JetBlue is likely to order these aircraft to expand Mint TATL, the big three are not sold. Boeing is definitely getting pressure to start a brand new MOM aircraft that satisfies what UA, DL, and AA. So lets forget the idea that Boeing has ignored the US carriers. The 737 MAX partially exists because of AA's massive order made five years ago, UA continues to make big orders with Boeing, and DL's accounting department can't get enough of the 739. Boeing lost out on the 747 replacement for DL because of the Dreamliner delivery schedule as DL would have had to wait until 2020 to start receiving the 787-9. Airbus had a similar delivery schedule problem until Emirates canceled its entire 70 aircraft A350 order. Airbus is able to deliver 25 A350s to DL by the time DL could have received a 787-9 from Boeing.

How much money on the A380 did Airbus blow instead of addressing the Dreamliner much quicker than the "band-aid" version of the A350 instead of the current design? If it weren't for Emirates, the A380 is just a niche aircraft for carriers hampered by slot constraints at airports and would be a big of failure as the L1011 was for Lockheed.

Jeff767

The C100 order is not intended as a MD88 replacement. They were purchased to replace regional aircraft as Delta brings that flying back to the mainline. There are currently no planned MD88 retirements prior to 2020 however Delta has made it known that if the right deal appeared they could replace the 30 oldest airframes.

rucksack

Delta may still be looking at the CS300 as a replacement to the MD88 for their 50 options. This also limits their PDP (pre-delivery deposit).

briguychau

How about Republic's 40 CS300 frames?

RaflW

That could be an opportunistic buy. DL can also convert some unannounced portion of today's order as CS300s. They will likely seat a few less pax than the 88s, but would be a fairly close replacement.

My assumption is that as DL keeps throwing off CR100s/200s, everything up gauges and in some cases frequency decreases. I wonder what the remaining useful life of a CR7 is? Curious that DL supposedly showed one off at the event today.

woodford02A

No one can truly guess what the M88/regional jet replacement playis here,but I think this airplane will allow DL to fly some long/thin markets that simply don't need a big gauge but are strategically important. Sounds like a perfect airplane for SEA, LAX and SLC to the east-coast growth as well as connecting other odd dots on the map like ATL-YVR.

avcritic

I am not anti-Boeing. Boeing is anti-US3 or pro-ME3 (your choice)

B787 program will never make profit. Doesn't matter if few are sold for profit.
http://www.seattletimes.com/business...-unachievable/

B777 sold 1600 copies over 20 years with lot of customers, without much competition from A340.
B777X will sell less than 500 copies to very few customers and has A350 competition. So B777X program will never see profit.

Also ME3 forced most of original B777 customers out of LH/ULH business. Not many need B777X.

B737NG is the bread winner. But you seem to think its successor is not important for companies survival. If B737MAX has issues similar to B787, Boeing is toast.

redheadtempe33

Thanks for posting this. Other than the walk through ... apparently I have been pronoucing Bombardier incorrectly (in my head - not like it comes up in conversation often/ever) since ... forever.

DA201

Boeing can be pro-US3 and ME3. They don't care who buys the airplanes, they simply sell them. I have not heard them once call out either side, so they are neutral.

Too early to tell the profitability of the 787. Increasingly difficult to measure in a year like this, when fuel prices are down and new plane orders are also down. If oil rises again and stays high, I can guarantee the Dreamliner will be profitable.

You said the B777 sold 1600 copies in 20 years, or ~80 per year. In the 5 years before the B777 entered service, it had 112 orders. The B777X has sold 306 planes in 2.5 years without even entering service, or ~122 per year. Along with this, many 777's are not nearly old enough to be replaced yet, and therefore orders don't need to be made for years. Don't really see your math...

You also said the ME3 were forcing many airlines out of the LH/ULH business. Although there is some truth to this, based on the fact that the number of passengers increases every year and the fact that the 777 order book has had relatively stable growth throughout its whole lifetime to this day, I think the 777X will have enough customers. And even if the 777X doesn't have as many customers as the 777, as long as it has as many orders it doesn't matter.

I think with the current issues of the A320neo, the MAX will be allowed to have a tiny bit of issues. However, I expect there to be minimal issues and it therefore be a pleasant surprise. Comparing MAX issues to 787 issues is absolutely ridiculous. The 787 was a type of plane which had never been built before, with all new technologies. Airlines knew there could be serious issues going in. The MAX is simply a slightly improved NG. There is a MUCH greater chance the A350 experiences issues than the MAX.



As for the original post on the new DL order, I am very happy. I am unsure if DL will actually give the middle seat more room or simply make them all the same, but they are still wider seats either way. Bloomberg said they will be replacing some MD88's. I think they may be used to start more feeder routes from SEA. SEA lacks the traffic of LAX or SFO to bring in 738s or A320s to serve many of the routes out of range of the smaller aircraft, but the CS100 can fly any transcon route. Overall, very happy with DL.

avcritic

777-9 is a VLA, use A380 order book as guide. 777-8 has very few orders.

With ME3 dumping capacity all over the world, most of the 65+ B777 customers downsized to B787 because they cannot fill bigger planes, hence limited interest in 777X.

With two(B787 & B777X) of three programs never going to make money, B737MAX's profit is essential for Boeing's survival.

DL's endorsement of C-Series is not going help that cause.

readywhenyouare

The 737-8 still beats the A320neo. The only plane in the Airbus narrowbody lineup that has the advantage is the A321. The 737-7 and 737-8 still beats the A319 and A320. The performance 737-7 is only needed in a handful of cases though and for all others it makes sense to operate the 737-8 given the similar economics l.