Forced Gate Check Carry-ons?
 

Looking for thoughts on this before I contact Delta.

My wife and I - both Diamond - have noticed more and more pressure from GAs and FAs to gate check baggage. I'm confident that it's downward pressure from upper management to be able to increase that tiny number listed as a statistic of on time departures.

However, 9 times out of 10, Delta gates do not start boarding at the scheduled time. But then they start pressuring the customer to get on board, stowed, seated so they can close the door.

In Chattanooga, that is followed by a 5-45 minute ground hold from ATL tower.

The instances we've noticed this:
- a month ago, we're on our way to AKL via ATL-LAX-SYD for work. We've checked all of our gear for the trip (lots of camera and computer gear) leaving us with a Cabin-OK sized bag with the stuff we'll need/want for the 15 hour segement of LAX-SYD, particularly comfort items like lighter clothes and pillows with me just having major back surgery 2 months prior.
My wife is delayed out of Chat due to weather but runs to the gate before Zone 10 passengers are into the jetway.
The greeting from the redcoat GA was: "You're not getting on this plane"
This is followed by a lengthy exchange between my wife and the GA, in such that she did get on the plane, but having to check the "smaller than carry on" bag all the way to SYD - she was forced to check it - even though it would easily fit under the seat in front of her - and I had already allocated overhead bin space in the front of EC seating that we were at (by closing the bin with FA blessing).
(this whole ordeal that had my wife in tears has been sent to Delta over two weeks ago without response yet - even the part about another customer who packed fragile items in her carryon that they were forceably checking - arguing with another GA who reprimanded the customer for putting fragile items in checked bags !?!?)

- next time was this week in LAX - my wife on a MR, no luggage - but as she clears Sky boarding, she hears the GA on the intercom announcing that anybody in Zone2 or higher WILL have their bags checked. This is before half the plane has even entered the jetway.


Now I understand - space limitations - if you're late boarding and there is not space on a full flight - ok.
And I understand that they wan't to leave ontime and yet there are plenty of frequent fliers and newbies alike that bring the kitchen sink and/or take their sweet a** time folding their jacket, getting their headphones out, etc...

But even Delta's own policy is of electronics or fragile items - they cannot be held liable and they should remain with you at all times:

"Delta is not responsible or liable for cash, camera equipment, commercial effects, computer software and equipment, electronic equipment, fragile articles, jewelry, lifesaving medication, negotiable papers, irreplaceable business documents, works of art or other similar valuable items contained in checked or unchecked baggage. These types of items should be carried on — and kept in sight."

So where is the boundary of what rights we as passengers have versus the ruling authority of the GA/FA to check carry on bags?

The same foolish question was posed on the AA forum. The response can be simplified: One does not have a right to board a plane with a bag.

Beyond FAA prohibitions, GAs and FAs determine what can be safely stowed within the confines of space and allowable weight.

As a starting point, you have no "right" to anything. It's just a contract.

With the really limited possibility that you are in a bulkhead and that there isn't a cubic inch of space in an OH, there ought to be space for the item which fits under the seat in front of you and that's where your laptop and jewelry ought to go.

So, the bottom line is that unless you are traveling with massive amounts of valuables in which case you ought to consider private charter, this just isn't an issue.

Funny enough, a friend just took a transatlantic flight to Europe and was forced to gate check even though there was room onboard (they were forcing basically everyone they could).

Then, of course, they lost it. I can't imagine how pissed I'd be. When I travel I only bring carryon (of the proper size) to avoid this stuff, and if they forced me to check and then proceeded to lose it? Holy crap would some choice words be said.

In the case of single-class regional jets (especially the ERJ-145s), if a bag has wheels on it (or is otherwise rollaboard in size), gate-checking should be mandatory.

Just got off BWI-JFK on a 145, and about five or six people boarded with rollaboards that obviously would not fit, and were forced to deplane to grab pink tags. Ended up delaying departure by about ten minutes.

This all goes back to the legacy carriers' decision to charge for checked baggage. Imagine the time savings if people could check rollaboard bags of a certain size and weight for free at the check-in counter, and then be able to pick them up in the jetbridge upon arrival. I'm sure that GAs, FAs, and pax would all be happy to see this.

Thank you for the responses so far, but I don't see this as a "foolish question", because according to Delta's policy that I quoted above and now from within Delta's own "Contract of Carriage":

Rule 190, Section F, subsection 2b:
"b) Precious or Highly Valuable Items
Precious or other highly valuable items, including without limitation cash, cash equivalents, securities, negotiable instruments, irreplaceable documents, jewelry, silverware, precious metals, works of art, computers, electronic equipment, photographic equipment, and any other items that cannot be easily replaced if lost or damaged may not be transported in checked baggage."

Again, that is in their contract of carriage

Further, if Delta does check items of high value, then they must obtain a waiver in writing:
Subsection d):
"d) Acceptance of Other Fragile or Perishable Items
Perishable items and fragile items not accepted by Delta pursuant to the preceding section may be accepted upon the condition that the passenger agree in advance and in writing to release the carrier of liability for loss or damage resulting from the unsuitability of such items as checked baggage and/or the inadequacy of their packaging, in a Limited Liability Release form to be provided by Delta."


And I understand if there is limited space, that too is in the contract of carriage - but not before half the plane has even boarded and not when the bag is obviously small enough to fit in the space under the seat in front.

There seems to be a pattern of GAs to not concern themselves with the any facts of bag size, feet space, etc..., but rather to just clear the boarding area and get the door closed.
I don't think we have to play dead to the GA "rules" that conflict with Delta's written policy, but if somebody can show me what states that I have no rights whatsoever to any baggage whatsoever, then I'll go over to the seamstress forum and figure out how to sew pockets on my shirts and pants for laptops and camera gear. ;)

Per TSA policy, an that is checked as luggage cannot be returned to a passenger in the sterile area. Firearms and other dangerous items could be checked at the ticket counter.

Also, passengers can check their carry on size bag to their final destination at the gate for free. Gate announcements actually encourage it when GAs stick to the script.

OP: I agree that GAs and supervisors are over the top about gate-checking bags with available OHB space.

The whiners here are all super-duper elites and get at least a freebie bag. They aren't lugging steamer trunks onboard to avoid bag fees, they are doing it because they've gotten away with it up until now.

DL and other carriers now enforce the rules and they are caught ought.

THIS. I wish Delta (AND EVERY CARRIER) would enforce carry on rules more-stringently. I have flown Ryan Air a few times in Europe....while the experience isn't award winning by any means, their carry on policing makes the boarding process great. No waivers, no favors, nada...bag fits in sizer, or it doesn't.

Why don't US carriers utilize the sizers at security. It seems like after 9/11 I went through several airports with a plastic template through which the bag either fit, or it was checked.

When GA's get incentive bonuses for getting a plane out on time, they really care little about their customers, plain and simple.

If the GA's would just enforce the carry on limit that would help a lot. Earlier this week I saw someone taking on four (yes four!) pieces - a carry on, a personal item, a purse and a shopping bag. That really needs to stop. But GA's almost never care. I can remember only one time that a GA patrolled carry on items and made people condense or check a piece. Extremely rare (again, because by that time, it holds up boarding and the GA might lose their incentive).

One way to avoid lost luggage is to put your things in a plastic bag and put the plastic bag in the roller bag. If you have to gate check, then you can gate check a nearly empty bag.

Another variation is to put certain items of high value in a plastic bag and remove those if you need to gate check a bag.

Customer service agents actually get money based on airport experience scores from surveys about customer service as well as on-time performance stats.

They get a bonus for customer service if their airport did well, and a bonus for on-time performance if the system did well.

There are no agent-level bonuses. Any bonuses are paid out at the airport- or systemwide level.

I fly out of CHA frequently and usually the request from GA's for flights on those tiny CR7's is that roller boards must be pink tag checked but you retrieve them at your next airport. I don't recall a time when they have forced you to check your bag all the way to final destination.

Did they offer this option? Did you (your wife) push this option? I usually check luggage because I have liquids I must travel with (sorry I don't leave NYC without my styling products!) so I don't often encounter this gate check requirement.

Sounds like you've already sent in a complaint to DL but depending on what you were forced to check (and was anything damaged??) you should at least get a bunch of miles (i'm thinking in the 20-30K range..YES) and perhaps monetary compensation. a 15 hour flight LAX-SYD requires you to carry on certain things to be comfortable which you referenced in your OP.

Standard, that's the exact solution that my wife came up with by the end of that trip. We now keep a large "Duty Free" labeled bag in the outside zipper of the pocket - something that they (hopefully) can't dispute.


mridley2,
The CHA agents have never been a problem - I've been a frequent visitor thru there since NW days where they used to call me out by name...usually associated with the words: "Last call" by which time I would be coming through security. :D
The issue was in Hartsfield where we get the wide variance of gate agents. And the other time was in LAX.

My concern - especially looking down the prospect of a 4hr + layover + 15hr flight - is that maybe I would like to do some work on my laptops. But I don't just have the ultralight laptops, several of mine are the beefy, heavy, ultra fast, expensive ($4k each). I have a hard sided Pelican to transport them in that fits under the seat in even the smallest CRJ200. But to be forced to check that for nearly a day would be quite frustrating - not to mention trusting several airport hubs transport/staff/theft/loss along the way.

What it comes down to the supposed empowerment that Delta agents are bullying customers with at these larger airports.

My own policy is that I would buy checked baggage insurance from Delta if they insist on checking such items. The point isn't the money, it's the amount of time it would take the GA to figure out how to sell the insurance, which would guarantee that the flight would not leave on time.

That was tried; but different airlines have different rules, and the ones that allowed slightly larger bags sued and won.

Seth,
I like it! :D
Nah...I LOVE IT!!

Sorry.

As stated the bag could go under the seat. And, there was room in the overhead.

The staff is getting a power trip by forcing people to check bags when it is not needed.

Just because a smaller group tries to take advantage is no reason for the staff to go nuts and force this crap. I am really getting tired of them gate checking when there is lots of room in the overhead (and in this case, underneath the seat).

My airport asks for volunteers to check bags as soon as the gate opens and no one has ever been required (to my knowledge) to check a bag since they started doing that.

sethb's suggestion is a good one! Another suggestion that has been posted before and seems like it might work is the following:

"I'm sorry <GATE AGENT's NAME>, but I am a Lithium-ion battery salesperson and my bag is just full of loose batteries.":D

Just hope they don't call your bluff...

UPDATE...from Delta:

"You shared that the gate agents are requiring passengers to gate check their carry on bag without question or regard to space available on the plane or the contents of the bag. This is unacceptable. Yes our agents know the importance of an on-time departure; however, they should be communicating with our flight attendants during the boarding process so that we can accommodate as many bags as possible onboard the plane. So, if this isn't happening we want to know so we can address this with our team members and their leadership team. It's especially concerning to learn the gate agents have an attitude about the carryon bag policy. We don't tolerate rudeness and I'm sorry if you both haven't received the caring and helpful service we expect our agents to provide. Again, your feedback is important to us so we can forward it for internal follow up."

Yet the only solution provided if we're asked to check our bag is to pull out what contents we need and carry on the plane. I have refuted this in a follow up email...we'll see how that goes.

But in the mean time - we don't have to lay down and play dead to the GAs and FAs. It seems that we're far from having "no rights" to carry on a bag.
So if the rest of us were to take the time and push forward an email to Delta Customer Service, then maybe more will happen with this allot sooner!

I travel with a variety of devices that have lithium ion batteries. If I had to gate check my carryon I'd have too many items to be allowed to carry them on, so they have to go in my carryon... which then can't be checked.

Just carry a tablet or two, a laptop, and a backup battery or two. Oh and my headphones have lithium ion batteries in them, too.

Your carrying regulated items does not translate to a change in the number of items permitted as carryons. Fail.

5 items in my carryon bag = one carryon, allowed.

If I have to check the bag, I have to take those 5 items out and carry them separately. 5 items = not allowed.

Yep, and you'd have the perfect chance to pull a DYKWIA moment and get a red coat, and they will let you on with your carryon.

Remember, we're not talking about a 99% boarded flight here, we're talking about being forced to check before boarding even begins or early on in the process. Frankly, that's just not going to happen.

I'd be afraid that in a case like this, a redcoat would defend the GA and if pushed, prevent you from flying.

I seriously doubt it if the bins are actually full and your carryon really is regulation sized.

In the past, I've just taken the tag and brought my bag on board. If it fits, it stays.

I've done that too.

Do you remove the tag in the jetway?

That was the case in my wife's first incident: it WAS a Red Coat that was giving her all the grief!

Is this pink tags for CRJ? I notice more frequently, and around the country on mainline flights they are taking your bag, printing actual checked luggage tags, and stacking them up on a cart. (Though seems like a theft issue as anyone can just walk by and grab one, they dont seem to pay much attention to it.)

Sometimes, or just hide it in my hand when I board.

Or I just ask for the tag and don't actually put it on my bag.

I haven't run into this on a flight where they're printing real checked tags, only gate checking. (Being Diamond, I tend to board early enough that finding space won't be an issue.)

I had a similar experience on 11/30/15 on the last leg of a 22 hour return trip between africa (to see my son and grandson) and the US. I had checked the Delta website in advance, measured my roll aboard carry-on before leaving, tested the carry-on in the sizer. For a trip of that length I carry both a small back pack and the roll aboard. I have been stranded over night by Delta/AirFrance on 2 of the last 3 times I visited my son (we DO love to go on strike). So I bring medications, a small pillow for my back (have a 12-inch rod), the electronics I don't want stolen, a clean pair of underwear, a toothbrush, my travel documents, small amount of currency for the countries I'm traveling through. This crap adds up. The very same bag I had placed in an OVERHEAD bin when I left home was banned from the last, yes smaller, plane on my way home. But my biggest issue was the smug, rude behavior of the flight attendant. I DID initially challenge him when he refused to let me board the plane, after all I've carried the same bag on similar flights any number of times. But I'm a wimp and I backed down. After I finished unloading all my "valuables" into a make do carry-on plastic bag, I asked where I could get info on what size bags I COULD bring for future flights. The guys was so hostile I wanted to cry. When I left the plane, he muttered to me as I passed "And now you can put it all back." C'mon really! I'm the doofy lady that pulls other peoples' missed trash out of the seat pocket. My sister was a flight attendant. I just want to know what the damn rules are so I can follow them. And yes, in my travels since then I would describe the effort to "gate check" bags as pushy and hostile. So I don't think the initial post is as much about having the "right" to carry bags on the plane as having the right to be treated fairly, consistently, courteously by the airlines.

So, on my way to GUM recently, I was traveling with my trusty TUMI rollaboard that has faithfully served me for several years on many delta aircraft. Sometimes, the bins need to be ... assertively closed, but it absolutely DOES fit in every mainline aircraft overhead (and I do apologize in advance if all the bins on the longer side are full with ladies handbags, shopping bags, laptop bags and such, and i'm forced to put it in sideways on the shorter vin side).

Anyway, I get to the TSA Pre security checkpoint at PHL and I'm about to roll on past the person who normally just patrols the point to keep the non-Pre people out of the line, and she motions me over to the collection of sizers from various airlines she has, and she tells me I must put my bag into the Delta sizer. Now, my bag was NOT overstuffed or anything, but for some reason the stupid Tumi was NOT going to fit in the long way, the stupid handle opposite the wheels just wouldn't go down. So, TSA lady tells me I have to go down to Delta. She tells me that this is a new policy that the airlines are making the TSA enforce. I'm not going to argue with her, since she's just a low-level person trying to make a buck, so I go marching on downstairs to the Delta ticket counter and explain that my Tumi has been with me for years without a problem and what the heck's going on. The Ticket Agent was surprised and hadn't heard anything of this, but it happened that the station manager was just getting into work and walking by, so the TA calls the station manager over to ask what's going on. The station manager takes on look at me and my bag and responds "That's NOT supposed to happen with one of our Platinum Million Milers. Come with me!" and she marches me back up to the TSA checkpoint, and explains to the checkpoint lady who she is and that I'm to be let through. I felt a bit bad for the checkpoint lady because the checkpoint lady was explaining to the station manager that she was just following a new directive that they had received. (Mind you, at no time did I play the DYKWIA card. In fact, I have an old GOLD MM card on my bag because it happened to be one of the ones that has my SM card on it. I suspect the station manager figured things out by looking at my PNR on the screen.)

That's a little surprising. Customer service agents are trained not to mess around with federal regulations. Enforcing the carry-on size policy is a federal regulation, and CSAs who have gone to a training class would know that the carry-on size policy applies to all customers... even a celebrity DM/MM. An $11,000 fine is an $11,000 fine. I wouldn't call violating a regulation good customer service. Delta CSAs break the rules all the time to help customers, but the law should never be broken, even if it's a stupid law (like carry-on size).

The carry-on size box doesn't determine if your bag will fit; it determines whether it meets the airline's carry-on size policy, and the airline is required to make a policy and enforce it by the FAA. I could fit in an overhead bin; it doesn't mean I'm carry-on size or I should go in the bin. Having items that can fit in the bin but aren't carry-on size-compliant is unfair to other passengers with carry-on bags who have to check theirs because the bins filled up with other peoples' large bags.

All that being said, I only have someone place their bag in the size check if they ask if it's carry-on size or if it's very obviously oversized.

The TSA officer was just doing her job, and she was doing it better than the station manager apparently.

First, not a CSA, the station manager
Second, not a celebrity DMMMMM, pond scum unknown PM MM. You know, #70 on the upgrade list? :)

Third, not a TSA officer, the private airport employee paid to "guard" entry point to the Pre line.

I certainly would never ask DL (or anyone) to bend or violate any federal regs and I would hope they would never do so! And I certainly would never mess with a TSA officer. I don't want to be grounded and I DO understand that they're just doing their job and following established rules.

But, I believe you DID, actually! . . . . .

I challenged a GA once about my bag being too big. The GA told me that there were always federal agents watching them to make sure they enforce carry-on size. I said - come on - that's a DL policy - not a federal policy. She told me that it's FEDERAL policy to enfore the carry-on size that DL sets! I have seen this reported here, too! Believe me - I was SHOCKED!

We all just take it for granted!

:)

I believe I DIDN'T actually :D I went back and reread my original post. I said "...what the heck's going on..." At no time in the post did I say that I asked anyone from DL to intercede (nor would I have). If the agent had told me this was something new, I was prepared to surrender my trusty Tumi and reluctantly purchase something smaller (I've been pondering a new bag anyway because mine's become somewhat worn, but I can't find any that I can pack suits or sport coats in and my current bag allows me to do so, even though they come out very rumpled. I digress - sorry.) when I returned.

Again, note that I was nowhere near a gate. I wasn't even at the security checkpoint :/

I have tried this before. The response was that there wasn't enough time, and I should have done this earlier (despite not knowing that I would be forced to gate check it) but I could still do it and get rebooked to the next flight.

I sent a complaint to Delta and got a non-response.