rayikes

Very amusing thread. Please don't file anything, you don't have a winner and it just raises the cost of FFP thus devaluing miles further.

Not sure that statement is true. FFP have value and killing the program would likely hurt any airline. Forgetting that United's profits in recent quarters has been largely due to mileage sales, I'd say evidence of expanding spend for air miles credit cards and limited status is pretty indicative. Think back to how common these cards were five years ago, then ten. Also, consider the number of major airlines that don't have an FFP, including airlines without substantial competition (abroad) and more recent start ups.

Felixishim

FF points is making delta a lot of money so an effective program for a short amount of time is nice.

they sell there skymiles let's say in DL eyes these worth 8cents/miles(cost to run the program). DL by slowly creating more bonuses and the devalued their award chart. So one way they are earning money for companies buying miles for good amount for that period. Then DL 2 year later increase all award level 25%, the whole liability of the miles lighten. Creating 5 tier award and such is just slowly increasing their bottom line with earning money with mileage.
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Now think about what they will do soon, with dynamic pricing, number of miles is going to be determine with relation to fare and such, creating those awards that are insanely expensive as there's no more award chart to even be just have a max to a route.

They are going to be able to lower their debt basically because is like a loan that you have and whenever it asks you to pay, you will have to pay soon even if this person did not fly last 10 years but just wanna get a 12.5k one way award. Every thing that u can get with miles it cost delta a little here little there.

With the crazy devaluation they essential possible to just lower 50% of those debt
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Then they have DL-Amex- Co Brand Credit Card, besides Amex is buying miles at a "discount", which is a price probably slightly lower then what the customer think is worth but of coz Delta know the cost is even cheaper for them.

BUT beside that as I know NZ has a deal with Amex co brand and they get pay a percentage of all the eligible charges as well. I would assume this is the same with Delta here. They probably have some sort or deal.

In Delta case I think the extra spending for platinum and reserve to get bonus miles is a thing that Amex pays extra for getting delta FF to make more purchases with the card. It can also be DL wanted to encourage FF to spend on the card so that will earn more with the rate that the negotiated

MLCJ

So you made the personal choice to use a free program so that in the future you could redeem miles for a free ticket? Still remains a free and voluntary program for which people make personal decisions on who to fly and the airline can change at any time, since again, it's their free program. These nonsense topics will continue until people realize that they have made an error in their efforts to self inflate their worth and think that flying hundreds of thousands of miles makes them special.

Felixishim

+1!!!!!!!!!

I agree. DL makes a lot of money to have a FF program with miles and incentive to earn a higher status to have better ways to use these miles like award ticket upgrade, waived change and re deposit fees etc. while other airlines has last minute ticketing fees. Partner phone booking fees.

They earn extra money right there if someone book a nice 125k biz USA-EU award. The person If not a medallion or just not fly enough distance to PM even thought a lot of segment and MQDs. He will pay $150 for that change if reservation will not waive it for him. That's a lot of these fees DL is collecting.

And the chances to sell miles at $10 of miles then 2 years later make those miles only worth $8 in an award is very tempting. Basically 20 cents out of every dollar is free or just use miles on thing that doesn't worth it for some people to pay cash but justify paying with miles like DL SkyClub for what 80k miles? Just get an Amex platinum is better in any case unless u need MQM or whatever then u can still use reserve then spending 80k at that time. Of coz the person can just have no time to use the award and then be devalued but selling something is when instantly now delta writes in the book against Delta this year.

Felixishim

If I choose one company over the other company because you have a buy 9 get 1 free and the other company only has buy 8 get 1 free.

Is the airline/ company lying or false advertising to these people who enroll in this offer and follow every single thing that is require to do.

It is honestly how you don't even try to understand why the others have different points of view as you said these posts do come up with a lot of discussion for both point of view, you should try to be open mind because I can see where your reasoning even though I don't agree.

Is it a fact that this will be an illegal behavior for any business:

If a company say that Buy ALL these product A,B,C,D,E in the promo period of products you will get Product F for free but for some reason after the buy all these product are only 70% of what they suppose to be? Will this be legal?

Of coz with mileage and so on it should be able to change but therefore hence that there should be some sort of consumer protection as I would think good faith is one year If you're going to make damages to the other party. Typically additional usually will will not violate good faith as it is positive to both parties.
No one can sue with no lost

It is the same. This is "FREE" doesn't cost the customer anything Except influences them to purchase this product so that they can eventually get extra rewards for being loyal with one airline.

This benefit has value to the customer therefore he chooses the program if there is completely no value. Why would one join or why would it make any money for the company?

Therefore when DL cancels something way too in advance, it is hurting the customer even though he has follow the program rules to do his part as much as possible.

That's why I think let's say this comfort+ change to medallion benefits,
IF Delta raises the change right now or any date till December 31 of 2015 those changes should applied only on or after the start of 2017 membership year.

Because that People who chooses who they travel, which airline is more appealing or better for him will know exactly what he is earning for as 2017 year change is now locked started from Jan 1 2016. They only changes delta can make on 2017 can only benefit as all these flyers has flown in 2016 for this year 2017 status.

Of coz this only applies for program that are operate with membership year. Of the program is a rolling 10months then is only the next 10 months.

MLCJ

But your response is the crux of your problem, you think your loyalty to Delta actually means something, it doesn't. When you realize it, you might be better off. I prefer Delta and spend $150k+ a year (and yes unlike most in the U.S. that want to throw out the ME3 based on the myth, I've flown all three and prefer Delta's 1-2-1 vice 2-2-2 or more) but I know I don't mean anything to them and I'm 360. They treat me reasonable well and have great customer service (something you won't likely get if anything goes off script with the ME3), so I pick them.

I love when I read people suggesting they have millions of miles and are upset they now have limited options on using them. Here's an idea, don't hoard for years and then think you should get to redeem them based on a program's award chart 5+ years ago. Would you prefer that the airline forced you into using your miles every year so they don't have to deal with people upset with the changes?

Again, it is a free program. If an airline charged you for membership, then by all means sue away or continue to rant, but the fact is it is free and you get free things in return for flying them. You and only you decided which airline to fly. It's simple, don't like the program, leave. But again, for a FO or GM, or a DM 360 for that matter, to think they're special when they're not is the heart of the issue. If people stop thinking the airline owes them more than getting them safely from point A-B in the class they paid for, we'd all be better off.

Dieuwer

How do you know it is free? Maybe airlines charge an undisclosed fee on top of the ticket to recoup the frequent flyer program cost. After all, the "YQ surcharge" has no 1-1 relationship with actual fuel cost. "YQ" might as well be the FF program fee + fuel.

Zeeb

The question asked by the OP: Are Airlines operating FFPs in good faith.

The question people are responding to: Are Airlines legally required to operate FFPs in good faith.

These are very different questions.

aCavalierInCoach

Excellent point, especially given the apparently divergent answers to each respectively

sethb

I made the personal choice to pay extra to Delta in return for the benefits that Delta promised to people who flew large numbers of miles on Delta.

As Delta reduces those benefits, the value of those benefits is likewise reduced, along with my willingness to spend extra on Delta.

That has nothing to do with my "worth" or being "special". It's purely a business decision, and Delta is making decisions that will cause passengers like me to spend less on them.

Delta has every right to do that. I'm not so sure they have the right to continue their false advertising about what they're doing, but I'm not in a position to challenge it.

sethb

It's clear that Delta is not operating its FFP in good faith.

It is not clear whether or not Delta is required to operate its FFP in good faith; we won't know that until there is a lawsuit over it (probably for false advertising).

woodchuck

DAL is acting in good faith to it's shareholders and executives. They waited until after the last dividend date of the fiscal year before announcing any negative plan changes and late enough in the year that most Medallions have qualified for status in the coming year and it wouldn't affect the bottom line.

Felixishim

Or should there be laws about requiring them to operate in good faith in the future.

Zeeb

I'm not sure what laws could do in regards to FFPs, not allowing extreme consolidation was the opportunity the government had to prevent this. Eliminate competition and you eliminate the need to fight for customers.

Felixishim

I have also replied a lot of different comment that in principal of coz there should be when that reasonable expectation end therefore I bring out the membership year. Or period. That as we earn 2016 in 2015 no changes to 2016 should made after 2014 DEC 31