Feb 23, 2015, 7:17 am
Last edit by: MSPeconomist
Please provide a link of the relevant discussion posted in the Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles forum so that fellow FlyerTalk members who want additional information can easily access it.
Separating this list by topic — such as Sky Club, for example — could also be helpful in finding information.
1) End of Stopover (& Open Jaws) award tickets
2) 2015 Revenue Based Program
3) SDC Same Day Change 1, 2 3 & 4
4) DL forces ExpertFlyer to remove ALL data pertaining to DL flights
5) Devaluation of Skymiles again and again
6) Skyclub $29 +1 upcharge for DM & Delta Reserve
7) E-Class fares no upgrade & other perks
8) Silver Medallion perk reductions
9) MQDs or qualifying dollars
10) Removing transcon upgrade for GM & FO
10') Removing transcon (JFK-LAX/SFO and vv routes) upgrade for PM
11) Removing Award wallet real-time tracking (for seat changes)
12) No more award HOLDs (for a few days)
13) T-72 Rule for Skymiles re-deposit
14) Removing elite gifts for both the year you earn and the next year status
15) OK, where is "Have One On Us"?: No more HOOU snack option
16) Delta RTW going away?: End of RTW or Round The World award tickets
17) Consolidator fares including for AMEX Travel
18) Limited food vouchers when bumped
19) All but eliminating Skyteam award choices
20) Less access to International third party lounges
21) Change - SkyMiles transfer upon death policy program update: Delta DieMiles – why you die so do your Skymiles
22) End to combining vouchers on one ticket
23) No LEVEL 1 awards on DL metal unles 21+ days
24) No Korean credit unless DL-CODE Share
24') Reducing the number of KE flights with DL codeshares
25) Reduced points when crediting to Alaska Airlines
26) End of HOOU (Have One on Us) coupons for elites
27) Removal of Award Charts
28) Removal of greater award space medallions
29) Removal of greater award space DL AMEX holders
30) Changes to Skybonus (min 5 + spend numbers)
31) Making it impossible to see fare rules about half of the time
32) Requiring that flights using GUCs/RUCs be flown before expiration, not just have the upgrade confirmed before expiration as was the case for SWUs.
33) Consolidation of upgrade codes making it harder to check that you are listed with the correct priority
34) Fewer international award tickets with overnight connections (under 24 hours)
35) AmEx regular Platinum card members no longer permitted (free) guests in SCs
36) DL Reserve cardholders no longer permitted (free) guests in SCs
37) No more cheese and crackers in SCs
38) DM/PM/GM and partner SkyTeam ElitePlus no longer given access to contract lounges before DL coach flights on international itineraries
39) AMS KLM lounges can no longer be used upon arrival
40) Changes in entry requirements for AF arrivals lounge at CDG?
41) Fewer self serve bars in SCs; tips now expected for all cold beverages other than water
42) Replacement of real plates in SCs first by black plastic and now by cheap white paper
43) Removal of private cubicles from SCs at MSP, DTW, LAX, and others
44) Removal of half decent wines from (some) SCs, for example Kenwood chardonnay, merlot, and cabernet at LAX
45) Removal of signs for quiet zone at MSP F/G SC
46) Removal of baby carrors from SCs
47) Removal of packaged crackers from SCs
48) Removal of chicken skewers from SCs after test period
49) Removal of butternut squash soup from SCs
50) Periodic replacement of real French champagne from the French region of Champagne by cheap horrible sparkling wine, especially removal of the champagne that won a "best business class champagne" award for DL from DL flights right after the award was announced
51) Removal of bread and butter plates and butter knives from BE trays
52) Reduction of MQM earning on M fares from 150% to 100%
53) Upgrade instruments no longer cover AF/KLM segments beyond CDG/AMS
54) Disappearance of upgrade space on partner flights such as AF/KLM
55) Elimination of SkyPriority TSA security lanes at some airports; to the extent that these are being replaced by PreCheck, lack of an elite PreCheck area
56) Increased replacement of real live DL check in agents by kiosks, especially when combined with the insistence at some airports that even elite and premium cabin passengers must first prove that they attempted to use the kiosk and failed before being permitted to talk to a human agent
57) Removal of ovens from aircraft, resulting in cold meals only, even on long flights at dinner time
58) Removal of the fourth row of FC seats from A319/A320 (although this is currently being changed back on the A320)
59) Removal of BE seats from the 777, making upgrades harder
60) Regular SC members no longer permitted (free) guests
61) Closure of the AF lounge at NRT
62) Loss of the Oasis lounge at JFK T4; its replacement (Wingtips) requires PP to enter
63) Increasing replacement of mainline flights by DL Connection service
64) GMs can't book EC/C+ seats for free until T-3 days
65) Some statements from DL that refer to elites seem to mean only GM+ (Does DL still consider FOs to be elite?)
66) Newly earned Choice Benefits cannot be selected before March 1
67) Removal of fare calculation details from DL receipts; fare components can no longer be verified
68) MH no longer a partner for earn and burn
69) SQ no longer a partner for award tickets, including IFC (IME award availability was surprisingly good)
70) Closure of lounge that was the PMNW WC at LGA.
Separating this list by topic — such as Sky Club, for example — could also be helpful in finding information.
1) End of Stopover (& Open Jaws) award tickets
2) 2015 Revenue Based Program
3) SDC Same Day Change 1, 2 3 & 4
4) DL forces ExpertFlyer to remove ALL data pertaining to DL flights
5) Devaluation of Skymiles again and again
6) Skyclub $29 +1 upcharge for DM & Delta Reserve
7) E-Class fares no upgrade & other perks
8) Silver Medallion perk reductions
9) MQDs or qualifying dollars
10) Removing transcon upgrade for GM & FO
10') Removing transcon (JFK-LAX/SFO and vv routes) upgrade for PM
11) Removing Award wallet real-time tracking (for seat changes)
12) No more award HOLDs (for a few days)
13) T-72 Rule for Skymiles re-deposit
14) Removing elite gifts for both the year you earn and the next year status
15) OK, where is "Have One On Us"?: No more HOOU snack option
16) Delta RTW going away?: End of RTW or Round The World award tickets
17) Consolidator fares including for AMEX Travel
18) Limited food vouchers when bumped
19) All but eliminating Skyteam award choices
20) Less access to International third party lounges
21) Change - SkyMiles transfer upon death policy program update: Delta DieMiles – why you die so do your Skymiles
22) End to combining vouchers on one ticket
23) No LEVEL 1 awards on DL metal unles 21+ days
24) No Korean credit unless DL-CODE Share
24') Reducing the number of KE flights with DL codeshares
25) Reduced points when crediting to Alaska Airlines
26) End of HOOU (Have One on Us) coupons for elites
27) Removal of Award Charts
28) Removal of greater award space medallions
29) Removal of greater award space DL AMEX holders
30) Changes to Skybonus (min 5 + spend numbers)
31) Making it impossible to see fare rules about half of the time
32) Requiring that flights using GUCs/RUCs be flown before expiration, not just have the upgrade confirmed before expiration as was the case for SWUs.
33) Consolidation of upgrade codes making it harder to check that you are listed with the correct priority
34) Fewer international award tickets with overnight connections (under 24 hours)
35) AmEx regular Platinum card members no longer permitted (free) guests in SCs
36) DL Reserve cardholders no longer permitted (free) guests in SCs
37) No more cheese and crackers in SCs
38) DM/PM/GM and partner SkyTeam ElitePlus no longer given access to contract lounges before DL coach flights on international itineraries
39) AMS KLM lounges can no longer be used upon arrival
40) Changes in entry requirements for AF arrivals lounge at CDG?
41) Fewer self serve bars in SCs; tips now expected for all cold beverages other than water
42) Replacement of real plates in SCs first by black plastic and now by cheap white paper
43) Removal of private cubicles from SCs at MSP, DTW, LAX, and others
44) Removal of half decent wines from (some) SCs, for example Kenwood chardonnay, merlot, and cabernet at LAX
45) Removal of signs for quiet zone at MSP F/G SC
46) Removal of baby carrors from SCs
47) Removal of packaged crackers from SCs
48) Removal of chicken skewers from SCs after test period
49) Removal of butternut squash soup from SCs
50) Periodic replacement of real French champagne from the French region of Champagne by cheap horrible sparkling wine, especially removal of the champagne that won a "best business class champagne" award for DL from DL flights right after the award was announced
51) Removal of bread and butter plates and butter knives from BE trays
52) Reduction of MQM earning on M fares from 150% to 100%
53) Upgrade instruments no longer cover AF/KLM segments beyond CDG/AMS
54) Disappearance of upgrade space on partner flights such as AF/KLM
55) Elimination of SkyPriority TSA security lanes at some airports; to the extent that these are being replaced by PreCheck, lack of an elite PreCheck area
56) Increased replacement of real live DL check in agents by kiosks, especially when combined with the insistence at some airports that even elite and premium cabin passengers must first prove that they attempted to use the kiosk and failed before being permitted to talk to a human agent
57) Removal of ovens from aircraft, resulting in cold meals only, even on long flights at dinner time
58) Removal of the fourth row of FC seats from A319/A320 (although this is currently being changed back on the A320)
59) Removal of BE seats from the 777, making upgrades harder
60) Regular SC members no longer permitted (free) guests
61) Closure of the AF lounge at NRT
62) Loss of the Oasis lounge at JFK T4; its replacement (Wingtips) requires PP to enter
63) Increasing replacement of mainline flights by DL Connection service
64) GMs can't book EC/C+ seats for free until T-3 days
65) Some statements from DL that refer to elites seem to mean only GM+ (Does DL still consider FOs to be elite?)
66) Newly earned Choice Benefits cannot be selected before March 1
67) Removal of fare calculation details from DL receipts; fare components can no longer be verified
68) MH no longer a partner for earn and burn
69) SQ no longer a partner for award tickets, including IFC (IME award availability was surprisingly good)
70) Closure of lounge that was the PMNW WC at LGA.
The Definitive Delta Devaluation Thread
Feb 23, 2015, 12:31 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
The Definitive Delta Devaluation Thread
So in the last 3-5 years or so... what have been the devaluations of the Sky miles program, and even Delta in general? There have been so many coming from so many angles I've lost track. We should have a complete thread summarizing these.
There's just too many for me to list. None of this, "but it doesn't apply to me so it's not a devaluation" nonsense. If Delta made a program change to put more dollars in their pocket - It's a devaluation - pure and simple. None of this - "But I like it better because it's so exclusive now" spin either.
Example - "Premium Drinks" - well whooppee. If I wanted a fine cocktail to pay for I could easily buy it outside the lounge. Now I pay for Sweetwater 420 instead of free - That's a devaluation. Does this type of move lower overall Delta's lounge alcohol costs? - Yes indeed - therefore its a devaluation.
Let's see - a few examples that come to mind...
Limiting guest access to lounge
M fare MQM bonus reduction (when that used to matter)
RTW ticket gone
Of course the huge move to dollar based miles
Minimum spend requirement MQD's
There's tons more...
Then some obscure ones..
Upgrade on trans-cons
Upgrades on E fares (introduction of E fare in general)
Meal availability on flights of certain lengths
Then some really obscure ones...
24 hour cancellation policy for booking on DELTA.com does not apply if booking originates from ASIA (Even if you are a US based customer) Say what? True!
Introduction of the "X" fare that then morphed into a policy of not allowing a change in schedule on a ticket even if the ticket says changeable/refundable (on the Delta.com website) with a fee (You lose the ENTIRE ticket cost) - this is if ANY leg of your travel has an X fare originating from Asia (don't know about other locations) and you haven't flown the outbound leg yet. Sneaky I know!
Removal of seat availability from 3rd party web sites.
There's tons more... I just haven't seen a definitive list and thought it might be fun to put one together so we can see what the death by 1000 cuts now looks like compared to what we expected when we started giving our loyalty to Delta.
There's just too many for me to list. None of this, "but it doesn't apply to me so it's not a devaluation" nonsense. If Delta made a program change to put more dollars in their pocket - It's a devaluation - pure and simple. None of this - "But I like it better because it's so exclusive now" spin either.
Example - "Premium Drinks" - well whooppee. If I wanted a fine cocktail to pay for I could easily buy it outside the lounge. Now I pay for Sweetwater 420 instead of free - That's a devaluation. Does this type of move lower overall Delta's lounge alcohol costs? - Yes indeed - therefore its a devaluation.
Let's see - a few examples that come to mind...
Limiting guest access to lounge
M fare MQM bonus reduction (when that used to matter)
RTW ticket gone
Of course the huge move to dollar based miles
Minimum spend requirement MQD's
There's tons more...
Then some obscure ones..
Upgrade on trans-cons
Upgrades on E fares (introduction of E fare in general)
Meal availability on flights of certain lengths
Then some really obscure ones...
24 hour cancellation policy for booking on DELTA.com does not apply if booking originates from ASIA (Even if you are a US based customer) Say what? True!
Introduction of the "X" fare that then morphed into a policy of not allowing a change in schedule on a ticket even if the ticket says changeable/refundable (on the Delta.com website) with a fee (You lose the ENTIRE ticket cost) - this is if ANY leg of your travel has an X fare originating from Asia (don't know about other locations) and you haven't flown the outbound leg yet. Sneaky I know!
Removal of seat availability from 3rd party web sites.
There's tons more... I just haven't seen a definitive list and thought it might be fun to put one together so we can see what the death by 1000 cuts now looks like compared to what we expected when we started giving our loyalty to Delta.
Feb 23, 2015, 2:48 am
#3
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1
Yeah, Delta has gone from my preferred to carrier to least-preferred almost overnight with their new policies.
Living in Taiwan, which I currently do, I don't go home often. When I do, however, I like to stick with what I know and what is reliable. A lot of people I know go for the cheapest ticker bar none, but I stayed loyal to Delta for a long time, flying their routes on my annual/biennial trips, despite the fact they started being more expensive about 3 years ago.
It served me well. Taiwan is about 8,000 miles from where I live in Pittsburgh, so I was banking miles. I never got enough in a year to qualify for any tiered preference, but I still raked in the miles that I could use to get reward travel later on.
Then, last year, they announced that they'd be switching from miles-based to $$-based flyer miles, effectively reducing my round trip ticket from 15,000+ flyer miles to around 2,000.
At that point, I decided to switch to a new airline - maybe Korean Air or EVA Airlines. Anyway, I still had just over 24,000 miles, which under the old system could be used for any round-trip ticket within the US as long as I bought an extra 1,000 miles.
I'm going to a wedding in SF this summer, so in January, I checked and yep - it was 25,000 miles for a round trip. I still need to work out logistics for some other family members, so I didn't purchase right then.
A few weeks ago, the reward travel charts disappeared. Last week, when I purchased my round trip from PIT>SFO, it had gone up overnight to 35,000 miles. So the $70 I had spend to bump to 26,000 miles the month before was meaningless. I ended up doing the miles + cash option, which altogether cost me over $260. My wife's ticket cost $430. Not much of a savings, by any means.
Yesterday, my father-in-law bought a round trip ticket with his miles for my sister-in-law to fly from ORD>SFO over the same dates (fewer miles round trip). They charged him 42,000 MILES!
Seriously, ... Delta!? They have screwed like 90% of their customers over the past 2 months. My return flight from the wedding will be my last with them.
Living in Taiwan, which I currently do, I don't go home often. When I do, however, I like to stick with what I know and what is reliable. A lot of people I know go for the cheapest ticker bar none, but I stayed loyal to Delta for a long time, flying their routes on my annual/biennial trips, despite the fact they started being more expensive about 3 years ago.
It served me well. Taiwan is about 8,000 miles from where I live in Pittsburgh, so I was banking miles. I never got enough in a year to qualify for any tiered preference, but I still raked in the miles that I could use to get reward travel later on.
Then, last year, they announced that they'd be switching from miles-based to $$-based flyer miles, effectively reducing my round trip ticket from 15,000+ flyer miles to around 2,000.
At that point, I decided to switch to a new airline - maybe Korean Air or EVA Airlines. Anyway, I still had just over 24,000 miles, which under the old system could be used for any round-trip ticket within the US as long as I bought an extra 1,000 miles.
I'm going to a wedding in SF this summer, so in January, I checked and yep - it was 25,000 miles for a round trip. I still need to work out logistics for some other family members, so I didn't purchase right then.
A few weeks ago, the reward travel charts disappeared. Last week, when I purchased my round trip from PIT>SFO, it had gone up overnight to 35,000 miles. So the $70 I had spend to bump to 26,000 miles the month before was meaningless. I ended up doing the miles + cash option, which altogether cost me over $260. My wife's ticket cost $430. Not much of a savings, by any means.
Yesterday, my father-in-law bought a round trip ticket with his miles for my sister-in-law to fly from ORD>SFO over the same dates (fewer miles round trip). They charged him 42,000 MILES!
Seriously, ... Delta!? They have screwed like 90% of their customers over the past 2 months. My return flight from the wedding will be my last with them.
Feb 23, 2015, 5:25 am
#4
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
>>Yesterday, my father-in-law bought a round trip ticket with his miles for my sister-in-law to fly from ORD>SFO over the same dates (fewer miles round trip). They charged him 42,000 MILES!<<
Ahh yes - forgot about that. Often there is a different price if it is YOU travelling rather than someone else - Why? Because someone at Delta saw that they could make more money doing it this way. They are your miles. You earned them. Why do they need two prices?
Ahh yes - forgot about that. Often there is a different price if it is YOU travelling rather than someone else - Why? Because someone at Delta saw that they could make more money doing it this way. They are your miles. You earned them. Why do they need two prices?
Feb 23, 2015, 5:26 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
Feb 23, 2015, 6:35 am
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ATL Lost Luggage
Programs: Kettle with Kryptonium Medallion Tags
Posts: 10,306
Welcome Back to FT, BogusRogus!
To your list, I would add the tripling of the requirements to earn "status". The program went from having one simple requirement for status (mileage) to three: mileage, MQM/MQs and MQDs.
I wonder how soon Delta will add a social media requirement -- for example, FOs could be required to make 50 Delta-related Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat posts, GMs required to make 100, etc.
To your list, I would add the tripling of the requirements to earn "status". The program went from having one simple requirement for status (mileage) to three: mileage, MQM/MQs and MQDs.
I wonder how soon Delta will add a social media requirement -- for example, FOs could be required to make 50 Delta-related Facebook/Twitter/Snapchat posts, GMs required to make 100, etc.
Feb 23, 2015, 7:17 am
#8
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Look up - On a ✈ DELTA ✈ jet NOW!
Programs: Blogger & Delta Diamond Medallion Million Miler
Posts: 4,174
Feb 23, 2015, 7:46 am
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
Wow - I didn't know this.
21) Delta DieMiles – why you die so do your Skymiles
This one just seems so ... petty and mean spirited for world class company. An announced change to boot.
http://travelsort.com/blog/can-you-i...-members-death
21) Delta DieMiles – why you die so do your Skymiles
This one just seems so ... petty and mean spirited for world class company. An announced change to boot.
http://travelsort.com/blog/can-you-i...-members-death
Feb 23, 2015, 7:48 am
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
I didn't know this one either. I thought the idea of the T-72 was to provide more availability close in for low awards?
23) No LEVEL 1 awards on DL metal unless 21+ days
23) No LEVEL 1 awards on DL metal unless 21+ days
Feb 23, 2015, 7:54 am
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
9) MQDs or qualifying dollars
We can add - raising of MQD's that were just established last year.
Silver Medallion MQDs increasing to $3,000 (Previously $2,500)
Gold Medallion MQDs increasing to $6,000 (Previously $5,000)
Platinum Medallion MQDs increasing to $9,000 (Previously $7,500)
Diamond Medallion MQDs increasing to $15,000 (Previously $12,500)
We can add - raising of MQD's that were just established last year.
Silver Medallion MQDs increasing to $3,000 (Previously $2,500)
Gold Medallion MQDs increasing to $6,000 (Previously $5,000)
Platinum Medallion MQDs increasing to $9,000 (Previously $7,500)
Diamond Medallion MQDs increasing to $15,000 (Previously $12,500)
Feb 23, 2015, 7:57 am
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
37) No more cheese and crackers in SCs
What no more fake Cheese? Remember that one with claim they didn't have enough refrigerators for real cheese?
What no more fake Cheese? Remember that one with claim they didn't have enough refrigerators for real cheese?
Feb 23, 2015, 8:02 am
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hong Kong, Philippines, Alabama
Programs: Delta Skymiles KM (Charter Member)
Posts: 150
How about this one?
Starting January 1, 2015, Delta will limit the number of miles a SkyMiles member can transfer from a single transfer partner (e.g., American Express Membership Rewards or Starwood Preferred Guest) into a single Delta SkyMiles account to 250,000 miles per calendar year. This change will apply to all their partners that allow you to convert points into SkyMiles.
source thepointsguy (since I just copied and pasted it)
http://thepointsguy.com/2014/10/delt...#ixzz3Sa3VnTzP
Starting January 1, 2015, Delta will limit the number of miles a SkyMiles member can transfer from a single transfer partner (e.g., American Express Membership Rewards or Starwood Preferred Guest) into a single Delta SkyMiles account to 250,000 miles per calendar year. This change will apply to all their partners that allow you to convert points into SkyMiles.
source thepointsguy (since I just copied and pasted it)
http://thepointsguy.com/2014/10/delt...#ixzz3Sa3VnTzP