Mar 29, 2017, 7:29 am
Last edit by: TWAforever
DL/KE current flights between ICN and North America:
Update from Delta News Hub (28MARCH17):
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-kore...nd-partnership
Will this mean a move from Group 4 partner to Group 1? Delta SkyMiles PR rep says:
"... the details you’re looking for will be figured out further down the road"
Further from the Delta press release on the date of the JV agreement being signed, 6/23/17:
Delta and Korean Air will lay the groundwork for implementing all aspects of the joint venture, subject to regulatory approvals, including:
It cited no date for the enhanced FF benefits to be effective.
New Delta SkyMiles mileage earn chart, including MQMs and MQDs, for Korean Air flights effective May 1, 2018. See posts #566 and #567 for details.
Update from Delta News Hub (28MARCH17):
http://news.delta.com/delta-and-kore...nd-partnership
Will this mean a move from Group 4 partner to Group 1? Delta SkyMiles PR rep says:
"... the details you’re looking for will be figured out further down the road"
Further from the Delta press release on the date of the JV agreement being signed, 6/23/17:
Delta and Korean Air will lay the groundwork for implementing all aspects of the joint venture, subject to regulatory approvals, including:
- Expanded codesharing in the trans-Pacific market
- Joint sales and marketing initiatives in Asia and the United States
- Colocation at key hubs with seamless passenger and baggage transit experience
- Enhanced frequent flyer benefits, providing customers of both airlines the ability to earn and redeem miles on Delta's SkyMiles and Korean Air's SKYPASS programs
- Increased belly cargo cooperation across the trans-Pacific
- Under the agreement, the airlines will also share costs and revenues on flights within the scope of the joint venture as they work to expand service options for travelers.
- Increased belly cargo cooperation across the trans-Pacific
- Enhanced frequent flyer benefits, providing customers of both airlines the ability to earn and redeem miles on Delta's SkyMiles and Korean Air's SKYPASS programs
- Colocation at key hubs with seamless passenger and baggage transit experience
- Joint sales and marketing initiatives in Asia and the United States
It cited no date for the enhanced FF benefits to be effective.
New Delta SkyMiles mileage earn chart, including MQMs and MQDs, for Korean Air flights effective May 1, 2018. See posts #566 and #567 for details.
Joint Venture Between Korean Air and Delta Announced — Effective as of May 1, 2018
Mar 29, 2018, 12:16 pm
#496
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
But you're talking about a relatively small percentage of travelers that would be affected by that. The vast majority of people are not Diamond that would get GUC's so it's not really a thing they worry about. Even if DL flew a 777 MSP to ICN, it's still only 37 D1 seats to fill daily. And not just to ICN, but to basically all of East Asia (except China) Plus DL/KE may be able to come to an agreement on those now.
Mar 29, 2018, 2:45 pm
#499
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,712
This is wonderful news that will indeed allow DL to regain competitiveness in TPAC. Especially if they can gradually add a few extra SEA-Asia directs and resume DTW-HKG.
However, it's beyond ridiculous to say that DL is giving up on China. With a population 4 times greater than the USA, and 20 times greater than South Korea, I promise you nothing could be further from the truth. DL has part ownership of MU and I suspect they will continue to grow that partnership (much like in Europe where DL has 2 hubs as well). It's just going to take a bit longer.
However, it's beyond ridiculous to say that DL is giving up on China. With a population 4 times greater than the USA, and 20 times greater than South Korea, I promise you nothing could be further from the truth. DL has part ownership of MU and I suspect they will continue to grow that partnership (much like in Europe where DL has 2 hubs as well). It's just going to take a bit longer.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:20 pm
#500
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
Programs: DL 1MM Annual Silver,AS 100K 22-24, AS 75K 15-21
Posts: 4,278
I don' think so. Delta has insufficient flights into/out of Tokyo, and HND slots are controlled by US/Japan slot agreements. As written in Cranky Flyer, I agree, Delta will hold onto the skeleton operation at NRT until Delta attain four more flight slots to HND, namely SEA, ATL, DTW and HNL.
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely | Cranky Flier
Jiburi
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely | Cranky Flier
Jiburi
Mar 29, 2018, 3:28 pm
#501
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
I don' think so. Delta has insufficient flights into/out of Tokyo, and HND slots are controlled by US/Japan slot agreements. As written in Cranky Flyer, I agree, Delta will hold onto the skeleton operation at NRT until Delta attain four more flight slots to HND, namely SEA, ATL, DTW and HNL.
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
Mar 29, 2018, 3:33 pm
#502
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,413
I disagree. With AF, you can only upgrade on the TATL segments using GUCs, while KLM allows upgrades for the intraEU segments too. For upgrades using miles, close to full coach fares are required, although upgrades from premium economy to business class on AF have generally been pretty decent deals.KLM has dsome decent day of departure upgrades exAMS using money and miles.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:34 pm
#503
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
I don' think so. Delta has insufficient flights into/out of Tokyo, and HND slots are controlled by US/Japan slot agreements. As written in Cranky Flyer, I agree, Delta will hold onto the skeleton operation at NRT until Delta attain four more flight slots to HND, namely SEA, ATL, DTW and HNL.
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
Mar 29, 2018, 3:38 pm
#504
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Back in Reds Country (DAY/CVG). Previously: SEA & SAT.
Programs: DL PM 1MM, AA PLAT, UA Silver, Marriott Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 10,349
I don' think so. Delta has insufficient flights into/out of Tokyo, and HND slots are controlled by US/Japan slot agreements. As written in Cranky Flyer, I agree, Delta will hold onto the skeleton operation at NRT until Delta attain four more flight slots to HND, namely SEA, ATL, DTW and HNL.
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
With Four More Tokyo/Haneda Slots, Delta Could Pull Out of Its Ever-Shrinking Narita Hub Entirely Cranky Flier
Jiburi
Mar 29, 2018, 3:38 pm
#505
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SJC/YUL
Programs: DL PM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,878
Right, because the population of Asia is so small compared to Europe, that clearly only 1 hub is required for the entire continent of Asia.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:45 pm
#506
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
“NRT Hub” and “NRT operation” are different from each other. The NRT hub is pretty much dead anyway. Palau and Saipan are being cut in May and Shanghai gets cut in July. The only onward connections on DL at NRT after July will be SIN and MNL (and I’ll be curious to see what happens there - if they get axed and SIN and MNL passengers get routed via ICN now). But even if DL gets HND slots to add SEA, ATL, DTW, and HNL, that would still leave PDX and a second HNL flight that would either remain for NRT, unless PDX is dropped completely and HNL is cut to one daily flight. I.e. I believe DL would maybe really need closer to 6 slots at HND to fully abandon NRT.
As has been said in a few posts now, NRT won't be a hub at that point either way.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:47 pm
#507
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
I disagree. With AF, you can only upgrade on the TATL segments using GUCs, while KLM allows upgrades for the intraEU segments too. For upgrades using miles, close to full coach fares are required, although upgrades from premium economy to business class on AF have generally been pretty decent deals.KLM has dsome decent day of departure upgrades exAMS using money and miles.
AF is already the outlier among DL's close partners -- KL, VS, and AM all now have reasonably comprehensive upgrade options, and the momentum seems to be in that direction. It's possible KE could end up like AF, but at this point that would be an outlier from the trendline.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:52 pm
#508
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SEA, NW/DL 1.6Million Miler
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Posts: 4,278
I agree.
Jiburi
Mar 29, 2018, 3:56 pm
#509
Join Date: May 2015
Location: DCA
Programs: AA EXP, DL FO, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 6,712
Lol chill dude. The PVG hub is dead. Period. I'd expect to see some increased presence there, but they wouldn't be going full-blown JV with KE if MU was working out. They could consider a JV with China Airlines to add a second East Asia hub, but the mainland politics of that are dicey.
Mar 29, 2018, 3:57 pm
#510
Join Date: Aug 2016
Programs: Delta
Posts: 87
The PVG hub has always a longer-term plan and I have no doubt that it will go ahead. Look at a map and you will see why. The idea that DL was opening a PVG hub tomorrow sprung from the fevered imaginations of the usual FT suspects.