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Joint Venture Between Korean Air and Delta Announced — Effective as of May 1, 2018

Joint Venture Between Korean Air and Delta Announced — Effective as of May 1, 2018

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Old May 4, 18, 8:23 am   -   Wikipost
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DL/KE current flights between ICN and North America:

Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
Currently KE has ATL, ORD, DFW, HNL, IAH, LAS, LAX, JFK, SFO, SEA, IAD, YYZ and YVR

DL currently (or soon) has SEA, DTW, ATL

Update from Delta News Hub (28MARCH17):

http://news.delta.com/delta-and-kore...nd-partnership

Will this mean a move from Group 4 partner to Group 1? Delta SkyMiles PR rep says:

"... the details you’re looking for will be figured out further down the road"

Further from the Delta press release on the date of the JV agreement being signed, 6/23/17:

Delta and Korean Air will lay the groundwork for implementing all aspects of the joint venture, subject to regulatory approvals, including:
  • Expanded codesharing in the trans-Pacific market
    • Joint sales and marketing initiatives in Asia and the United States
      • Colocation at key hubs with seamless passenger and baggage transit experience
        • Enhanced frequent flyer benefits, providing customers of both airlines the ability to earn and redeem miles on Delta's SkyMiles and Korean Air's SKYPASS programs
          • Increased belly cargo cooperation across the trans-Pacific
            • Under the agreement, the airlines will also share costs and revenues on flights within the scope of the joint venture as they work to expand service options for travelers.

It cited no date for the enhanced FF benefits to be effective.

New Delta SkyMiles mileage earn chart, including MQMs and MQDs, for Korean Air flights effective May 1, 2018. See posts #566 and #567 for details.
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Old Sep 29, 14, 11:14 pm
  #1  
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Joint Venture Between Korean Air and Delta Announced — Effective as of May 1, 2018

http://www.koreaittimes.com/story/40...ade-securities

"The second reason has to do with the fact that Korean Air is expanding its business in Europe by acquiring CSA Czech Airlines while establishing a joint venture in partnership with Delta Airlines in the Americas."


Is joint venture far off?

How would this affect DL's NRT hub?

How would this affect KE's ICN hub?


In doing so id imagine PDX/MSP-NRT would be moved to PDX/MSP-ICN.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 12:38 am
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Remember that DL has JVs with AF, KL and VS, and CDG, AMS and LHR form a triangle with no point more than 400 miles away from another.

I can see a DL/KE JV serving Japan from ICN much like KL serves the UK from AMS, with small aircraft serving pretty much all the regional airports in the country.

I don't think this affects DL's Tokyo direct service from the USA.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 12:42 am
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If DL and KE can get along. I think this is great news.

Same as DL as AS.

Get along and everyone makes money.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 12:51 am
  #4  
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I know lots of folks have been frustrated over the limited earnings on KE. Couldn't a JV (possibly) help resolve this favorably?
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Old Sep 30, 14, 1:30 am
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Originally Posted by kettle1 View Post
If DL and KE can get along. I think this is great news.

Same as DL as AS.

Get along and everyone makes money.
But DL and AS do not (and probably never will absent a merger, as I can't see the DOT approving antitrust immunity for two domestic competitors other than through a merger -- joint ventures are just a legal fiction to allow pseudo-mergers between carriers that can't merge due to foreign ownership rules) share revenue in the joint venture sense -- only through normal code sharing and interline agreements. DL has made it clear that revenue sharing partners are the ones they really care about. They view themselves as too big and important to worry about lesser carriers who don't share revenue.

Originally Posted by rwoman View Post
I know lots of folks have been frustrated over the limited earnings on KE. Couldn't a JV (possibly) help resolve this favorably?
Of course. I would be shocked if KE doesn't become a Group 1 partner the moment a joint venture is approved. In fact, I thought the general impression was that DL slashed the earnings on KE in retribution for KE's unwillingness to enter a joint venture. In fact, I would hope that true frequent flyer reciprocity, including MQDs, would be a condition of the metal neutrality portion of DOT's approval. This would be the first new joint venture approval since MQDs were instituted, right? I can dream....
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Old Sep 30, 14, 3:42 am
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Needs to happen already. It would make SkyTeam very formidable in East Asia in spite of the lack of a Japanese carrier.

Imagine if SkyTeam can have fully linked hubs in Shanghai, Tokyo, Taipei and Seoul that connect to all parts of the world.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 4:10 am
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Originally Posted by Tanaka07 View Post
How would this affect DL's NRT hub?
.
It would mean the end of DL's NRT-Asia interport flights - so probably no more DL metal to BKK, SIN, and MNL. Those three destinations are unlikely to be served nonstop from the US anytime soon, and it would be more economical for DL to have KE fly pax beyond ICN to BKK/SIN/MNL....similar to what UA has done with BKK (stop flying there with their own metal and use NH through their JV).
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Old Sep 30, 14, 4:14 am
  #8  
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
But DL and AS do not (and probably never will absent a merger, as I can't see the DOT approving antitrust immunity for two domestic competitors other than through a merger -- joint ventures are just a legal fiction to allow pseudo-mergers between carriers that can't merge due to foreign ownership rules) share revenue in the joint venture sense -- only through normal code sharing and interline agreements. DL has made it clear that revenue sharing partners are the ones they really care about. They view themselves as too big and important to worry about lesser carriers who don't share revenue.
I don't see why DOT would have a problem. DL and AS routes don't overlap much. Also it was only a decade ago that NW had a controlling interest in CO. It wasn't until CO wanted to play footsies with UA did NW give up the golden interest (or whatever name they called it). If anything I think DOT would prefer a JV instead of merger. A merger would rule out AS continuing to codeshare with all the partners they codeshare with. If you look there's just about no airline they don't codeshare with. An AS owned by DL is going to beholden to DL's chosen partners.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 4:45 am
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta View Post
It would mean the end of DL's NRT-Asia interport flights - so probably no more DL metal to BKK, SIN, and MNL. Those three destinations are unlikely to be served nonstop from the US anytime soon, and it would be more economical for DL to have KE fly pax beyond ICN to BKK/SIN/MNL....similar to what UA has done with BKK (stop flying there with their own metal and use NH through their JV).
If it's just those three routes, then DL can definitely sustain them since there is probably still a value in NRT as a hub. Isn't the point of a JV like this to supplement NRT rather than outright replace it?

Unless KE can fly people from NRT to SIN/BKK/MNL directly, it still makes sense to keep them around or replace with them with a route from SEA/LAX/wherever.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 5:01 am
  #10  
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Double post.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korea...l#post23602970

Previous rumor.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/korea...ure-rumor.html

It was rumored to materialize in first half of 2014.

Last edited by TerryK; Sep 30, 14 at 5:10 am
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Old Sep 30, 14, 5:44 am
  #11  
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I'm not sure that a JV would be so good for FFers, even if it puts KE into Group 1 status with DL for full MQM and RDM earning.

The problem is all the DL award blackout dates and the FULL Y requirement for using DL miles to upgrade KE flights under the SkyTeam Upgrade Award program, where blackout dates also apply.

To alleviate this, we would need to be able to use miles and other upgrade instruments such as GUCs for KE flights with reasonable fare class restrictions and reasonable availability.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 5:44 am
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Originally Posted by Tanaka07 View Post
http://www.koreaittimes.com/story/40...ade-securities

"The second reason has to do with the fact that Korean Air is expanding its business in Europe by acquiring CSA Czech Airlines while establishing a joint venture in partnership with Delta Airlines in the Americas."


Is joint venture far off?

How would this affect DL's NRT hub?

How would this affect KE's ICN hub?


In doing so id imagine PDX/MSP-NRT would be moved to PDX/MSP-ICN.
Not sure why, but there could be something in the Korean culture that, in my view, makes them a difficult airline. I have used them some as a DL flyer for two decades, but they just seem to be so strict about everything. DL should only JV with them IF there is an understanding that they need to be more user friendly.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 6:38 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
I'm not sure that a JV would be so good for FFers, even if it puts KE into Group 1 status with DL for full MQM and RDM earning.

The problem is all the DL award blackout dates and the FULL Y requirement for using DL miles to upgrade KE flights under the SkyTeam Upgrade Award program, where blackout dates also apply.

To alleviate this, we would need to be able to use miles and other upgrade instruments such as GUCs for KE flights with reasonable fare class restrictions and reasonable availability.
Absolutely this from a consumer standpoint. The current condition for lack of mile/mqm earning for KE is abysmal, as well as the lack of reasonable upgrade instrument. A JV would be of little to no benefit unless they have both a combination of full mile and MQM earning, as well as usable upgrade instruments such as global certs without the crazy blackout dates for half of the year.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 8:52 am
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Even if there has been past animosity between DL/KE a $1 with a bunch of zero's behind it can soothe a lot of hurt feelings.
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Old Sep 30, 14, 8:54 am
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Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
Even if there has been past animosity between DL/KE a $1 with a bunch of zero's behind it can soothe a lot of hurt feelings.
You would think, but there was a lot of animosity from KLM (employees) toward PMNW after "we" saved them from bankruptcy.
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