Switch to UA or AA from Delta
Jul 18, 2014, 3:55 am
#16
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,956
At least when I lived in Madison, DL was the only airline with any flights with F to MSN (certainly the only mainline). AA and UA typically mean 50-seat RJs to ORD for most flights, or (on AA) a 50-seat RJ to DFW. Looks like UA has a CRJ700 with F on one of their flights now (to DEN), but no airline comes close to DL for upgrade opportunities out of MSN. MSP and DTW are well-situated hubs relative to MSN, so Delta (really NW) has a big network advantage. And the DCA nonstop is are a plus for me.
Pricewise, the biggest airline at an airport often doesn't feel a need to be terribly competitive, and that's why I mostly flew AA when based in MSN. But on the majority of routes where all three majors involve a connection, there's no airline that's systematically cheapest out of MSN. Two of the AA (Eagle) ground staff were certainly bad apples; I don't know if they're still there.
I often found the Van Galder bus to O'Hare (which is more comfortable than a CRJ or ERJ) followed by a nonstop on AA to be the best, cheapest, and most reliable option out of MSN. The RJs to ORD get cancelled in the slightest rough weather there, whereas the buses are very reliable: I once had one of the buses get me to O'Hare right on time when a foot of snow fell during the drive. You can guess how many flights flew out of MSN that day.
Pricewise, the biggest airline at an airport often doesn't feel a need to be terribly competitive, and that's why I mostly flew AA when based in MSN. But on the majority of routes where all three majors involve a connection, there's no airline that's systematically cheapest out of MSN. Two of the AA (Eagle) ground staff were certainly bad apples; I don't know if they're still there.
I often found the Van Galder bus to O'Hare (which is more comfortable than a CRJ or ERJ) followed by a nonstop on AA to be the best, cheapest, and most reliable option out of MSN. The RJs to ORD get cancelled in the slightest rough weather there, whereas the buses are very reliable: I once had one of the buses get me to O'Hare right on time when a foot of snow fell during the drive. You can guess how many flights flew out of MSN that day.
Jul 18, 2014, 4:20 am
#17
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
It's a 108 mile flight from MSN to ORD. I could see where the UG odds on the follow-on route come into play, but is the UG (or lack thereof) really that big of a deal on a route like MSN-ORD?
Jul 18, 2014, 6:23 am
#18
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 5,292
Just for giggles, I checked a random set of dates (Oct 13-17) from MSN
LAX-Frontier cheapest in market by > 100
SAN-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
SFO-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
PDX-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
PHX-Frontier cheapest in market
SEA-Frontier cheapest in market
DEN-Frontier cheapest in market by a lot
BOS-American cheapest in the market
LGA-Delta cheapest in the market
JFK-Delta cheapest in the market
EWR-Delta cheapest in the market
PHL-United cheapest in the market
DCA-United cheapest in the market
IAD-United cheapest in the market
MCO-Delta cheapest in market
FLL-Delta cheapest in the market
RSW-American cheapest in the market
TPA-Delta cheapest in the market
HNL-United cheapest in the market
Just for continued giggles, three international markets
LHR-United cheapest in the market
CDG-United cheapest in the market > 100
FCO-United, American, Delta, British Airways, and Iberia tied
I profess absolutely ZERO scientific madness to this survey. What I am demonstrating is that sometimes markets are higher and sometimes they are lower. If you find specific markets that you fly that they aren't competitive on then do what you have to do but their is no evidence in the record that Delta is always higher. So, if you have a diverse route pattern, the date one airline and the beyond what a company can spend are incompatible.
LAX-Frontier cheapest in market by > 100
SAN-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
SFO-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
PDX-Frontier cheapest in the market by > 100
PHX-Frontier cheapest in market
SEA-Frontier cheapest in market
DEN-Frontier cheapest in market by a lot
BOS-American cheapest in the market
LGA-Delta cheapest in the market
JFK-Delta cheapest in the market
EWR-Delta cheapest in the market
PHL-United cheapest in the market
DCA-United cheapest in the market
IAD-United cheapest in the market
MCO-Delta cheapest in market
FLL-Delta cheapest in the market
RSW-American cheapest in the market
TPA-Delta cheapest in the market
HNL-United cheapest in the market
Just for continued giggles, three international markets
LHR-United cheapest in the market
CDG-United cheapest in the market > 100
FCO-United, American, Delta, British Airways, and Iberia tied
I profess absolutely ZERO scientific madness to this survey. What I am demonstrating is that sometimes markets are higher and sometimes they are lower. If you find specific markets that you fly that they aren't competitive on then do what you have to do but their is no evidence in the record that Delta is always higher. So, if you have a diverse route pattern, the date one airline and the beyond what a company can spend are incompatible.
Jul 18, 2014, 6:24 am
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AA Gold, Delta DM Hilton Diamond SPG Gold, and Foodland premium.
Posts: 824
Agreed the upgrades to ORD, MSP, DTW are no big deal. It become a bigger deal from MSP to LAX and LAX to ITO.
It seems that most people are not that critical of AA. United is probably off the table and they have the same crazy revenue based skymiles program. Since I fly about 5 times a year to Hawaii, the miles I will not gain with the program changes will make a serious dent in my miles if I stick with delta.
It seems that most people are not that critical of AA. United is probably off the table and they have the same crazy revenue based skymiles program. Since I fly about 5 times a year to Hawaii, the miles I will not gain with the program changes will make a serious dent in my miles if I stick with delta.
Jul 18, 2014, 7:22 am
#20
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: CHS
Programs: UA Mileage Plus, Delta Skymiles PM, AA ExPlat, Hilton Honors Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 362
Earlier this year, when I was in the corporate world and had to use Concur, I would do my searches on ITA Matrix to ensure that there really wasn't anything competitive on DL before booking another airline. Once I found the competitively priced flights I wanted, I would fight with Concur using their advanced search criteria and attempt to create the same itinerary at the same prices and was generally successful and able to stay on Delta that way.
I thought I saw a quote earlier from the CEO of the new AA that he thought that the model that Delta and UA adopted was a good one and that the only thing holding them back from doing that is the larger merger issues that they have. That is the only thing that has kept me from making the jump to them. I want to wait and see what we end up with after the merger shakes out. For now, I stick with Delta because I perceive them to have the highest level of operational stability and best service.
I thought I saw a quote earlier from the CEO of the new AA that he thought that the model that Delta and UA adopted was a good one and that the only thing holding them back from doing that is the larger merger issues that they have. That is the only thing that has kept me from making the jump to them. I want to wait and see what we end up with after the merger shakes out. For now, I stick with Delta because I perceive them to have the highest level of operational stability and best service.
Jul 18, 2014, 5:29 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AA Gold, Delta DM Hilton Diamond SPG Gold, and Foodland premium.
Posts: 824
I really don't want to leave delta. I am going to try and do a lot of other flight options and layovers and change airports to see if I can make it work.
I'll let you know what I do thanks for the suggestions. I guess it is like maintaining a monogamous relationship. It takes a lot of work and a community.
I'll let you know what I do thanks for the suggestions. I guess it is like maintaining a monogamous relationship. It takes a lot of work and a community.
Jul 18, 2014, 6:31 pm
#22
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: CA
Programs: DL DM, AA Gold
Posts: 223
I have a similar situation in that my (very large) company also uses Concur and lately it seems to find much cheaper options with other airlines. I fly to a lot of the same destinations each year because of our schedule so it isn't like I am travelling to new places regularly.
I am on my way to DL PM this year and have Gold on AA but would rather stick with one if possible. It looks like all of the airlines will soon have identical FF programs, I wonder which one is going to dangle the one carrot to entice everyone their way?
I am on my way to DL PM this year and have Gold on AA but would rather stick with one if possible. It looks like all of the airlines will soon have identical FF programs, I wonder which one is going to dangle the one carrot to entice everyone their way?
Jul 23, 2014, 2:22 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AA Gold, Delta DM Hilton Diamond SPG Gold, and Foodland premium.
Posts: 824
It's happening again. I need to fly from MSN>GCC (Gillette, WY) on Sept 7-10.
United has the flight for 547
Delta has the flight for 827
The price difference is just too great for me to justify to my company. I thought I could get around it by saying it's cheaper to fly on Delta because I get checked bags free. But even United does not chart almost 300 for bags.
Has anyone tried negotiating with a phone rep?
United has the flight for 547
Delta has the flight for 827
The price difference is just too great for me to justify to my company. I thought I could get around it by saying it's cheaper to fly on Delta because I get checked bags free. But even United does not chart almost 300 for bags.
Has anyone tried negotiating with a phone rep?
Jul 23, 2014, 2:27 pm
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2012
Programs: DL FO/KM, AA PLT
Posts: 2,594
It's happening again. I need to fly from MSN>GCC (Gillette, WY) on Sept 7-10.
United has the flight for 547
Delta has the flight for 827
The price difference is just too great for me to justify to my company. I thought I could get around it by saying it's cheaper to fly on Delta because I get checked bags free. But even United does not chart almost 300 for bags.
Has anyone tried negotiating with a phone rep?
United has the flight for 547
Delta has the flight for 827
The price difference is just too great for me to justify to my company. I thought I could get around it by saying it's cheaper to fly on Delta because I get checked bags free. But even United does not chart almost 300 for bags.
Has anyone tried negotiating with a phone rep?
Did you try pricing as one-ways? It may be that one of the legs only has a high fare bucket availability, driving up the cost, but the other leg does not and might be matched to UA on that leg.
Jul 23, 2014, 2:32 pm
#25
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SEA
Programs: UA Silver, BA Gold, DL Gold
Posts: 9,779
Try it and let us know how it goes. 
Frankly, your company policy and your desire to be loyal to a single airline are at odds. I doubt you will have any more luck staying loyal to UA or AA than you have with DL. You can often swing it when you live in a hub, using the usual "reasonable routings" options that most companies have, but in a place like MSN, you are looking at free agency.
Frankly, your company policy and your desire to be loyal to a single airline are at odds. I doubt you will have any more luck staying loyal to UA or AA than you have with DL. You can often swing it when you live in a hub, using the usual "reasonable routings" options that most companies have, but in a place like MSN, you are looking at free agency.
Jul 23, 2014, 2:35 pm
#26
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charlotte
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum Elite, AA Platinum Pro, Hertz Presidents
Posts: 1,214
I can recall many posts regarding Houston, or Dallas, with AA I believe. Is UA different?
Jul 23, 2014, 2:36 pm
#27
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Delta Gold, Hilton Diamond, SPG Gold, IHG Plat, AMEX Plat
Posts: 220
I just started a new thread related to sticker shock on Delta - and it does not appear to be normal price variance. Prices so much higher than anyone else I too will have to switch from Delta.
"Was looking to book travel for an OMA-NYC trip in August and found that without a Saturday stay flights were nearly double the normal range - $850 from $450ish. Put in a few different weeks in Aug, Sept and a few different starting cities - OMA, MCI, CVG, MSP and found very similar results. Rates are also nearly double all other carriers - legacy or otherwise."
"Was looking to book travel for an OMA-NYC trip in August and found that without a Saturday stay flights were nearly double the normal range - $850 from $450ish. Put in a few different weeks in Aug, Sept and a few different starting cities - OMA, MCI, CVG, MSP and found very similar results. Rates are also nearly double all other carriers - legacy or otherwise."
Jul 23, 2014, 2:52 pm
#28
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AA Gold, Delta DM Hilton Diamond SPG Gold, and Foodland premium.
Posts: 824
I actually was able to be loyal to delta for the last 18 months. Not one non-delta flight. Delta, just within the last month has just started really jacking up the cost of the flights. I can be super flexible, go to an airport a little further away, spend an extra night, take red-eyes, and go for the little planes. But, even all of my "tricks" are not working these days.
Jul 23, 2014, 2:58 pm
#29
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DL GM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 18
I actually was able to be loyal to delta for the last 18 months. Not one non-delta flight. Delta, just within the last month has just started really jacking up the cost of the flights. I can be super flexible, go to an airport a little further away, spend an extra night, take red-eyes, and go for the little planes. But, even all of my "tricks" are not working these days.
Jul 23, 2014, 5:34 pm
#30
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2014
Programs: AA Gold, Delta DM Hilton Diamond SPG Gold, and Foodland premium.
Posts: 824
Ok I think I have it figured out. Please poke holes in my plan before I execute.
I do a united status match(yes I know they suck, but it appears I will need to fly them anyway since Delta has gone to the trough)
I need 22 segments in 90 days to status match platinum.
I have two Hawaii trips planned in August/Sept 12 segments.
Gillette WY 6 segments.
One trip to BOS. 4 segments.
I will have united status through 2016. I also have status with delta (platinum) through 2016 already. I still can pick and chose over the next year. I won't make diamond with this plan on delta, but I can chose between two airlines to get the best upgrade possibilities. Also, united has a better redemption program for miles.
I keep hearing that delta will get better, but it keeps getting worse.
Thoughts?
I do a united status match(yes I know they suck, but it appears I will need to fly them anyway since Delta has gone to the trough)
I need 22 segments in 90 days to status match platinum.
I have two Hawaii trips planned in August/Sept 12 segments.
Gillette WY 6 segments.
One trip to BOS. 4 segments.
I will have united status through 2016. I also have status with delta (platinum) through 2016 already. I still can pick and chose over the next year. I won't make diamond with this plan on delta, but I can chose between two airlines to get the best upgrade possibilities. Also, united has a better redemption program for miles.
I keep hearing that delta will get better, but it keeps getting worse.
Thoughts?