Impact of FAA furloughs on DL operations
 

After a somewhat manageable delay (~ 2 hours) this evening, which the flight deck blamed on reduced ATC staffing, I'm curious to hear from others how the cuts are affecting operations systemwide.

Has anyone else been delayed because of these cuts yet? Any plans to change travel patterns for the next few months? It looks like we may have a "fun" summer ahead of us...

I am most curious to know how Delta handles IROPs in these cases; how flexible can we expect them to be in re-accomodating passengers when the entire network is chronically constrained during the summer?

For reference, DL has posted the following travel advisory:

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_...furloughs.html

Safe travels to all, and best of luck in avoiding sequester-related delays!

I will be flying in and out of JFK on my way to/from LAS in two weeks.

The way I see it, this merely gives me the opportunity to get in some gambling before I arrive in Sin City.

I still don't understand why this will cause delays - probably a bit of drama I guess....

Circled around jfk for 30 minutes tonight but thats nothing new. Kind of felt like arriving at heathrow

LAX operations were completely messed up tonight (Sunday 4/21). :mad: A majority of SFO-LAX flights were cancelled and it seemed like there were system wide delays. We were only delayed 1.5 hours but the previous flight was cancelled. Basically it seemed like the equivalent of a very bad weather ground hold. FAA website attributed it to STAFFING and the pilots confirmed it was due to a shortage of ATC since they are not allow over time.

Even the parking lot was trying to deal with more than normal passengers arriving past midnight..

Good luck to those travelling this week. For once, I am happy to be on the ground!

Flew ATL-PHL Sunday afternoon...

There are more people going through the Pre-Check line in ATL, many of whom have not done Pre-Check before. Coats, shoes and belts were being taken off and liquids were being fished out of suitcases before the TSA staff stopped people. Obviously this is being done to make the TSA lines faster overall, but it slows down those of us who have been using Pre-Check for the past almost couple of years.

Landing in PHL, taxiing in was slow. As had been predicted, it seemed ATC could not handle both take-offs and taxiing planes simultaneously. We landed early and got to the gate on time, but we did spend longer than usual getting from the landing runway to the gate.

Atl 4/21 International Arrivals
 

Zero issues at CBP: Postive handling of passengers:
TSA thru to connecting flights (1) line and backed up with long delays :

Looks like the "staffing" delays yesterday were all relegated to LAX and N90 (the NYC TRACON). Today will be a better test to see what we're in for long term as many flights no-op on Sundays.

ATC doesn't have time to explain all their decisions, so pilots tend to exaggerate or assume things. I learned a long time ago that most pilots really don't know much about the ATC system outside of how it affects their flight. So to the OP I wouldn't believe everything they tell you. At least with smartphones you can access the OIS from the plane and see for yourself.

More manufactured delays to maximize impact and delay to cause an uproar. Sorry, but Sun traffic is relatively light and no reason for having massive delays like this.

I wonder which airport the FAA will 'target' today for slapping with exorbitantly long delays.

Please compare...
 

For this thread to be useful it would be best if you could compare your post-sequester flight observations with what you experienced pre-sequester.

Random observations of what happened, or didn't happen, on a particular flight or airport don't tell us much about the impact of the furloughs without a baseline to compare them to.

Don't know if this is normal for Mon morning, but LGA has a ground stop traffic management program in effect now, and 45min+ holding pattern delays for incoming aircraft.

A thread about this poped up over the weakened with some nice comments from ATC and pilots. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...xt-week-4.html
Admittedly, this thread has a better title. Maybe mods could merge?

Or maybe "the sequester just started and they're still figuring everything out," but conspiracy theories with a political axe to grind are more satisfying I guess.

So after some sleep, just some other observations that could be useful.

- The news hit the SFO staff like a ton of bricks. It seems like operations did not keep them well informed initially. They did a good job overall of trying to handle everybody by bringing in more CSRs to deal with the line. Hopefully, now that they know to expect this, they will be a bit more prepared.

- At SFO, for the cancelled 7pm flight to LAX, they were offering to either let you wait for our possible delayed flight, rebooked on the morning, or refund. I asked if I could get a hotel voucher if I had to overnight. The reply was that since it was an ATC problem, not Delta's fault, no hotel voucher would be provided. They did bring out the drink and snack cart into the gate area as well.


[\rant ON] I'm not a mod, but I'm taking a stab here. IMHO, this thread should focus on delays due to FAA and/or TSA staffing shortages. Please keep all political discussion about why/need/cause/etc.. to OMNI Politics. I think it would be more useful if we got a sense of how Delta responds, how it affects us, and useful information for avoiding or dealing with problems (my $0.02) [\rant OFF]

terrific typo!


+1

+2 (or whatever it will be by the time I finish this)

I don't come to FT for politics. Therefore, I stay out of OMNI/PR. I do not need to see posters editorializing here about their views on the budget situation. I trust the mods will deal with RBPs as they come in, but I think urging everyone to please restrict their political discussions to OMNI so that we don't have too many posts for the mods to deal with is worthwhile.

Flew DL non-stop LAX-JFK late Saturday night this past weekend, things were slow but security at the checkpoint seemed understaffed, but lines moved along okay & we allowed extra time, just in case. Ground crew announced at the gate that they will board 10 minutes early as it was a full flight and will try to leave 10 minutes early. TSA had 1 agent at the jetway doing ID check (none that we saw by the time Zone 2 was announced) but F/J seemed to be backed up to the right/Priority Lane.

We pushed back 7 or 8 minutes early and were #2 for takeoff, so it was quick and with a seemingly fast flying time, wheels up to touching the runway of 4:37 - and no holding once we're cleared to land, we taxi quickly into T3 at JFK almost 35 minutes early. Walking thru the terminal at the pre-dawn hours, saw plenty of sleepy TSA walking around, some in pairs, so it didn't look to us that at the from the onset (Sunday morning) - staffing on the ground was an issue, FAA controller - can't tell at all. Weather wasn't a factor at all for our flight and pilot was cheerful, made no reference at all about any sequester or delays resulting/expecting from it.

Two flights today SAT>SLC and SLC>SEA. security at SAT was fairly normal for a Monday; maybe a little heavy. I saw all of the regular TSA employees. The flight left early. The pilot did come out and talk to a couple of us and mentioned we would be a little late because of stronger than expected headwinds. He also said we had been loaded with extra fuel in case of ATC delays in SLC. I'm on the second flight now and we are expecting an early arrival after an on time departure.

Basically a non-event for me so far. I am glad I don't fly in/out of airports with heavier traffic. Safe travels everyone.

I agree

DL 2285 LGA-MCO

we departed 50 min late today, with GAs and pilots blaming ATC problems due to furloughs for the delay

For those posters discussing their recent experiences with Security/Screening, this weekend's changes had nothing to with that. The TSA decided to handle their sequestration cuts by enacting a hiring freeze. That actually went into effect last month. According to TSA's management, the hiring freeze will begin to be felt as the busy summer gets going if they don't replace Screeners who leave the agency. However, there was no drastic changes for the TSA over the weekend and Security screening should have been normal.

The FAA decided to handle their cuts in a different manner by givng every single member a 'day off without pay' every 10 days. That's what went into effect on Sunday and as another poster mentioned, yesterday the Staffing related Ground Delay Programs and Stops were felt mainly in NYC and LAX with some minor unpublished holding/vectors/runway issues at other airports. Today both LGA and JFK started the day with Ground Delay Programs though Wind and Runway mx appear to be contributing factors.

Everything going thru JAX center is delay due to ATC Staffing...Here is website I like to use before flying...

http://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/

Flew RDU-ATL-LIM yesterday. Both planes were on time and everything seemed normal enough in both airports, although RDU is pretty much always easy unless there's serious weather issues.

Hi all,

I have a friend flying AUS-JFK (AA) at the moment. She said the pilot states JFK was ok at the moment, but LGA delays were ~1 hour right now.

My sister is on DL JFK-SAN and I'm on AA back to LHR tonight. Right now, things look okay, but still 5 hours for things not to be okay.

So basically every delay this week is not going to be Delta's fault regardless of the situation. They will blame everything on ATC and not give passengers any kind of compensation for delayed or canceled flights. Sounds like just another way to save a few bucks. Happy Travels.

LGA is having wind related delays today, no ATC delays (at least as of right now).

I had a mx delay yesterday. No attempt to blame it on ATC. Hotel vouchers even offers over the gate paging system for those who wanted them.

there are advertised "wind delays", but having spent a few hours there this morning, no one is referring to wind when explaining the actual delays

someone is not telling the truth

Delta doesn't benefit in being dishonest to customers. Does it happen, yes! Majority of employees I speak with are truthful about the delay's.

NATIONAL AIRSPACE SYSTEM STATUS
(Note: This page will refresh every 5 minutes. Last updated Mon, 22 Apr 2013 17:48:11 UTC. Provided by the FAA's Air Traffic Control System Command Center.)
NATIONAL PROGRAMS

CONTROL ELEMENT START END SCOPE REASON AVG AAR PR ADVZY DA
JFK 1630 0259 ALL+CZY_AP RWY-TAXI / MAINTENANCE 101 34 34 041 DA
LGA 1233 0359 ALL+CZY_AP WEATHER / WIND 103 32 32 032 DA
FCAJX7 1115 2159 See Control Element... OTHER / STAFFING 53 -- 105 039 DA

YES, but you are not listening to me

pilots and gate agents are informing passengers that the delays at LGA are related to ATC staffing problems. there were FOUR separate announcements blaming ATC staffing before my flight this morning

this is what i am trying to tell you

My apologies....In this case, DL employees are not be truthful......The only current ATC Staffing issues are flights going thru JX center...

DMPM,

Nobody is disputing the fact that the 'listed reason' is wind.

However, here are the METARs for today:

The first Ground Stop for the day at LGA occurred after 7AM when the wind was essentially calm. Even as the day went along, there is nothing particularly eye catching about the wind. I can tell you that it is well below the HW/XW limits of the commercial aircraft operating there and it's conducive to a Land 4/Depart 13 operation at LGA.

Within the past hour EWR went into Ground Stop for winds and the winds out of the northeast are right down the runway for EWR which generally has problems when winds are out of the NW.


BTW, Charlotte (CLT) just went into a Ground Delay Program for staffing.

Current status

Delays by Destination:

Due to OTHER / STAFFING, departure traffic destined to Charlotte Douglas International Airport, Charlotte, NC (CLT) is currently experiencing delays averaging 17 minutes.

Due to RWY-TAXI / MAINTENANCE, departure traffic destined to John F Kennedy International Airport, New York, NY (JFK) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 41 minutes.

Due to WEATHER / WIND, departure traffic destined to La Guardia Airport, New York, NY (LGA) is currently experiencing delays averaging 1 hour and 43 minutes.

Due to RWY-TAXI / MAINTENANCE, departure traffic destined to John F Kennedy International Airport, New York, NY (JFK) will not be allowed to depart until at or after 3:00 pm EDT.

On flight 1895 PHL-ATL right now. Pilot said that due to less staffing ATC has us in a hold, expected to arrive late by about 15 minutes. Not sure how true the reasoning is.

It's a nice, sunny day at LGA - temp's around 50 degree F, wind at 20 MPH, gust to 30 MPH at times - must be :rolleyes: :mad: some sort of hidden wind shear that we don't know anything about, if you believe in that at all.

I supposed that with so many regional jets being flown these days, they are more prone to the slightest wind gust, and the poor turboprops ...

I agree with you Down3Green about the "stated" reason for delay in LGA. The airlines are at the mercy of ATC who are going make a point and impact as many customers as possible. Honestly, will we ever know if ATC is telling the truth on these delays..

Looks like we'll get to try out JFK first hand this Saturday. Flying thru JFK on the way to BCN. Back thru on May 5. I have a feeling that my 90 minute connect in JFK on the way back is probably not going to work.

Mandatory OT comment: Except for the true value of SkyPesos and the disgraceful Award Calendar.

Same with my RDU-LGA flight last evening. The pilots said ATC staffing many, many times.

Seems like DL could start selectively cancelling lightly booked "out and back" flights (hub to out station and back to hub), thereby keeping the planes and crews in position and taking a couple of flights out of the overloaded ATC system. Since DL can always blame ATC, in that case they would have zero responsibility to do anything for the stranded passengers other than leave them stuck on standby until there happen to be open seats on a later flight.

DL certainly can benefit in being dishonest to customers in some circumstances. This would appear to be one of them.