calin_z

I conducted a small study (statistically insignificant, though - for those challenging this statement) with the help of a DL GA friend - and I found that somewhere around 40-50% of the passengers on a plane do not have a FF number at all (let alone medallion status) and therefore do not collect any FF mileage credit for the respective flight.

Could this be the norm?

MSPeconomist

I suspect not, as it would suggest that a majority of passengers who do have FF numbers are elites, which shouldn't be true for typical routes, but is almost true by definition for routes with extremely long upgrade lists where the upgrade list can approach half of the aircraft's capacity.

HongKonger

I'm surprised it's only half.

calin_z

MSPeconomist - there is a huge number of pax that do not have a FF number listed on the boarding pass under their names. Status or not. That was the source for my 40-50%. Admittedly, some claim credit after the flight, but given how cumbersome the process is, I doubt that those will skew my percentage.

Grouchy

"While airlines do not disclose how many people are in each elite tier, Henry Harteveldt, a travel analyst at the consulting firm Hudson Crossing, said about 3 to 4 percent of a carrier’s frequent-flier members had elite status. Delta and United each have 90 million frequent fliers, and American has 69 million, which means anywhere from two million to four million elites a program (though the number may be higher)."

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/05/bu...anted=all&_r=0

The average active member of a frequent flyer program earns 11,364 miles per year.

calin_z

The initial topic was not about elites, but about passengers who do not have a FF number AT ALL, therefore do not collect any miles whatsoever.

MSPeconomist

The fraction of unique individuals enrolled in a program who are elites is very different from the fraction of passengers in a typical flight having a FF account who are elites. Almost by definition, elites travel much more than the average FF program member.

Grouchy

Oppsa...Was still editing my post. Will cut it and paste.

PIL/Manifests i got to see from intra-european KLM flights on B737-700/800 had on average 10 FF on it.
PIL/Manifests i did see (and still can remember) on intercontinental flights had something like 35-40 FF pax on it (747 combi/777-2)

EU situation might be different then the US & I try to avoid travelling on monday (and am sure the makeup is quit different then). Still find the number of FF in your post quit high.

PRWeezer

50% sounds high but then again there are lots of people who just don't fly that much and may not see the need, or value, in collecting miles or building loyalty. I know that's a horrifying thought for many of you.

On the other hand, I have FF accounts w 2 airlines that have a zero balance. I signed up w AirTran a few months ago only so that I could log in at T-24 to choose seats vs. paying in advance. That flight was on a promo voucher that didn't earn miles and was maybe the 5th time I've ever flown AirTran over 15+ years. I also have a FF account w AA w zero balance - signed up years ago when I thought I was going to have an Int'l business trip on AA but the trip never panned out.

TerryK

Domestic or international? It should be even higher for transpacific flights as many Asians don't sign up for FFPs. Many of them are on group fares and many Asian airlines don't give mileage for group fares. They don't bother to sign up even though DL may give mileage for group fares.

calin_z

I still find it plain stupid not to sign up for DL SkyMiles, especially under the current terms - no expiration date for miles.

DL miles (yes, Skypesos, worth whatever) can be earned through so many channels that getting enough for an award ticket takes very little time, but a little bit more discipline...

"I don't fly that much" is not an excuse - and yes, as someone pointed out above, it is incomprehensible to me (and many FT-ers here)

WWGuy

I suspect it's ignorance, rather than stupidity.

PowerFlyer

I am too, I would expect well over 2/3 of DL's unique customers don't belong to SkyMiles...hence why they push so hard to sign people up. AA acknowledged a few years ago that its average/typical customer travels with them every 18 to 20 months. Now, As noted above, FFers tend to travel more frequently so by their nature are on the plane more and therefore may actually make up more than their share of passengers on board. To illustrate: let's accept that 4% of SkyMile members have Elite status but, as we know, the typical 737 with 151 seats (and 16 F seats) usually has a upgrade list that leaves some behind. Therefore, because of the frequency with which elites travel, they will make up over 10% of the passengers onboard. The same principle goes for general members: even if they don't travel enough for FO status, they probably travel more often than every 18 to 20 months and therefore are over represented onboard.

While I would agree with you, we have to realize that we are a unique species of humans who are addicted to loyalty/reward schemes. Many people aren't that interested in doing so. My brother-in-law takes one vacation a year--usually oversees--and I don't think he's been on the same airline yet. In fact, the past three trips in three years all put him on different alliances. So to him, he doesn't see the payback coming fast enough to be worth joining and sticks to the lowest price airline and uses a low-interest rate credit card. Even for those like us (using me as an example), there are plenty of reward schemes that I just don't see any interest in putting effort into. For example, Best Buy has some rewards program but I buy things from them so infrequently that it's not worth the effort. The same with the independent donut shop in the center of our town; it has one of those "stamp" cards where the 7th cup of coffee is free. I think we have a dozen cards around the house with one or two stamps on it. I just can't get that excited about a cup of coffee. Now, if they created an elite status that let me cut the line and upgrade my donut to a muffin for free, it might be a different story!

javabytes

Also, keep in mind those who fly more often are more likely to have FF #s. So if you were to repeat this again and again, chances are you'd encounter repeat passengers with FF #s far more often than repeat passengers without FF #s. Which means the percentage of passengers without FF #s on a particular flight is likely to understate the percent across all Delta passengers.

canddmeyer

I have FF numbers for almost all the airlines I fly, but they're slowly expiring as I've cut back on flying and cashed out everything I could. However, I still book flights for others and almost none of them have FF #'s and don't want them for their once a year or so flight on a random airline. They have nothing to gain but junk mail in the inbox and mailbox. Yes, we're kettles!