pbarnette

They are definitely a small subset, but DL still has as many 744s as US has widebodies in their entire fleet. That isn't a knock on US, but just a reminder that they are an exceedingly tiny carrier without the scale to really compete.

BeatCal

Delta Business Class: (no first) (767-400ER)
flat, 20.5 in width, 76.5 - 81 in pitch
Delta Business Class (no first): (777-200LR)
flat, 20 in in width, 78 in pitch

US Air Business (no first) A330
flat, 25" width, 76" - 80"

American Business 777-300 ER
flat, witdth 26". 75" pitch
American First 777-ER
flat, 36" width, 80 " pitch

Both the US Air Product and the American Business are far better than Delta's and the first class American is equal to many of the Europeans (although not the suites on Singapore which are wonderful)


For comparison of flat bed seats: http://www.airlinequality.com/Experi...lass_seats.htm

1
Kingfisher Airlines

2
Singapore Airlines

3
Oman Air

4
Qatar Airways

5
British Airways

6
Etihad Airways

7
Swiss

8
Virgin Atlantic

9
Jet Airways
10
Air New Zealand

The World's Best Business Class Airline


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1
Cathay Pacific Airways

2
Qatar Airways

3
Oman Air

4
Singapore Airlines

5
Etihad Airways

6
Swiss International Air Lines

7
South African Airways

8
Virgin Australia

9
Hainan Airlines

10
Qantas Airways

pbarnette

1) You do realize that US Air's seat is the same as DL's 747 seat?
2) You do realize that AA does not currently have any 77Ws in service?
3) Why are you comparing first class to business class? They are different products at different price points.

k2

+1. There's not much to screw, VS J is only slightly better than DL.

Food: VS is sub-par like DL, I dislike them both equally. VS portions are smaller (which can be a blessing).

Seat (assuming flatbeds): a very slight edge to VS for two reasons: you're allowed to have the seat in a reclined position through takeoff and landing & a slightly more comfortable sleeping design (2 sided seat with different padding, one side for sitting and one for sleeping). First issue is gimmicky, can't see the value; the second is nice.

Service: not a noticeable difference; FAs were younger on VS; mattress pad and pajamas if you want 'em - besides that it's about the same.

I didn't find VS that special, considering the hype. They were pushing the envelope 10+ yrs ago, but the pack has mostly caught up.

BeatCal

N my experience (and seat sites), the US is wider

I fly first if available - Delta and Us Air don't offer.

On American, you fly Cathay which most rank first in international

And yes, I use Delta Private Jets via AmEx Cent as often as possible. Regular beds and no TSA make it worth it

Sabai

Which recalls a hoary maxim of Aeroflot in the Soviet days; the food in first was the same as in coach, but to make the front cabin a more pleasant experience, they served less of it.

USirritated

Agreed, with the present (contemplated) corporate ownership configuration, there will be little to no impact.

As others have pointed out, Virgin Atlantic is VS

Not meaning to be a pain, but I know you are intelligent enough to get this right........"Hugh" is the name of a person, HUGE is a word describing size.

DL is in the process of purchasing Singapore Airline's 49% ownership stake in Virgin Atlantic Airlines (only) for £224 million (approximately $360 million), DL will have no interest in any other parts of Sir Richard Branson's Virgin Group. It is interesting to note that what DL is paying $360 million for, SQ paid £600 million (approx $975 million at today's exchange rates, I did not look up the exchange rate for 2000) for in 2000! DL will not have majority ownership or control of VS, that will remain with Richard Branson through his Virgin Group, at least for the near future (and I know of no secret future changes announced which would change that anytime soon). The purchase is not expected to become finalized until the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2013.

There was an agreement to cooperate on landing slots at both LHR and GTW, but I do not believe there was any agreement to actually transfer title to those slots. This would actually be difficult, since DL is not actually paying VS anything for the ownership stake, DL is paying Tamasek Holdings, which is the Singapore Sovereign Wealth Fund (meaning the investment fund of the Government of Singapore, which is managed by the wife of the present Prime Minister of Singapore) which owns SQ and the 49% stake of VS.

The phrase "total control" is misleading, and probably not correct, especially if it is true that DL will have three out of seven of the seats on the VS board of directors.

While 49% can not ever be a literal majority, it could very easily be or become operating control share, depending on the ownership of the other 51%. With the present arrangement, which is 51% controlled by Branson's Virgin Group, an operating control share is not the case, but if Virgin Group ever dropped it's share ownership below 50%, 49% could become an operating control share in certain circumstances. Considering that Richard Branson has some publicly known financial challenges, reduction in his shares in VS is entirely possible and conceivable.

It seems that VS and DL are planning some kind of new Atlantic Alliance, along the lines of what BA and AA had when they first started their Atlantic Alliance back in the mid-1990s. The new VS/DL alliance will definitely include a lot of code shares on both companies metal, and will probably include VS joining SkyTeam fairly soon, as either a full member, or an affiliate member (or whatever the lower class of membership is called, I forget the junior membership name for SkyTeam). Eventually, the new alliance might include more strategic and complicated changes.

Considering that the entire fleet of VS is 43 planes at present, and they are considered the 8th largest airline in the UK by pax volume (only 5.6 million pax in 2011), and US fleet is approx. 625 planes (including regional/commuter which US owns) at present, and US is the 5th largest airline in the USA by pax volume (60.8 million in 2011), I would not be describing US as "an exceedingly tiny carrier."

US should probably be called either a midsize carrier, or a small major, even though they are dwarfed by UA, DL, and WN (even though WN fleet size is smaller, WN has no regional and WN pax volume is MUCH larger), US is slightly larger/approximately comparable in fleet size to AA which has approx. 617 planes (including regional/commuter), and almost double pax volume, and US is more than twice as large as B6 and AS in every way.

However, VS could be described as exceedingly tiny, they only have approx. 43 planes, and are MOSTLY limited to flights over and around the Atlantic Basin (flights to only 6 countries not in Atlantic Basin), and as I stated earlier, only 5.6 million in 2011 pax volume.

As far as further comparison between US and their next largest competitor, remember US has been generally profitable in the last few years, and AA is not at all profitable, and has not been for several years, and may not be anytime soon.

pbarnette

I was speaking of long-haul volume, where US IS exceedingly tiny, but I should have been more clear.

BeatCal

my point in original.

also, cant type on ipad and it changes words

Supersonic Swinger

The bigger worry is that DL will learn a few things from VS' frequent flyer program, Flying Club.

It's such poor value that even friends who work for Virgin tell me to avoid it.

tmontemb

Second that - always try to get on DL metal. Just much more comfortable.

BeatCal

Have and it does not come close to cathay or ba on AA or air canada for us/

SamuelS

If you think the BA Club World herringbone seats, 8 across on a 777, including the need on half of those seats to "clamber over" your neighbour when they have the seat in bed mode (a lot of fun in a darkened cabin when you're half asleep and need to venture to the bathroom)... if you think that's better than DL 777 where it's 4 across, and every seat has direct aisle access... if you think BA has better hardware then respectfully, I think you're nuts.

As for AwfulAirlines, I'm guessing you're comparing F to J again instead of apples to apples. I know you can't be referring to AA's sub-standard J class offering.

USirritated

Mr. Beat, as much as you seem to hate DL, or at least have a very strong "meh" feeling about DL, why in the heck do you fly DL so much, and why do you care how DL stacks up against the other airlines which seem so much more preferable, or almost precious to you?

USirritated

Does anyone else think that this is one of the weirdest threads, started on mistaken information, though oddly interesting and especially amusing, in recent times?