DL Notifies EAS, May Drop up to 24 (PMNW) markets
Jul 19, 2011, 6:56 pm
#106
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I think 300K a year for all 24 destinations is probably low. I know I use one of these airports and they have 60+ pax a day (more in the summer). About 20K pax a year at this point. And it is not one of the larger airports/areas on the list.
Jul 19, 2011, 7:02 pm
#107
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KLM does have a point here. I looked through the thread here and did not see any else make the point. How much less feed to MSP will there be as a result? Maybe 500 passengers a day?
It may seem a smallish number but it does add up over time. Remember this is round two for Delta killing feed to MSP, Delta already backed-out of of about 8 other cities. How much longer 'til B terminal is a ghost pier?
It's amazing how a corporation can try to put out the message "nothing personal we love MSP" and then turn around and dismantle it and its feed.
It may seem a smallish number but it does add up over time. Remember this is round two for Delta killing feed to MSP, Delta already backed-out of of about 8 other cities. How much longer 'til B terminal is a ghost pier?
It's amazing how a corporation can try to put out the message "nothing personal we love MSP" and then turn around and dismantle it and its feed.
Jul 19, 2011, 7:11 pm
#108
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As a percentage of ASMs, I believe MSP will see the lowest capacity reductions of any hub this winter except DTW.
Jul 19, 2011, 7:16 pm
#109
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Speaking from a personal perspective I hate that Delta made this decision, but from a business perspective, I completely understand. Our community has not supported air service like they could/should have so we really have nobody to blame but ourselves. HSV is only 60 miles away so for a lot of folks, they have more choices from there. I'm going to miss the $2/day parking and being home in 10 minutes that's for sure. Supposedly, Delta has committed to RJ service here starting Sept. 1 so it will be interesting to see if this will have any effect on pax count here.....
Jul 19, 2011, 7:23 pm
#110
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I'm also surprised about the PLN service. Always used to take it a few times in summer and it had good load factors (80%+). Maybe they'll bring it back next summer as a seasonal route for future.
Jul 19, 2011, 7:27 pm
#111
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Let me use Cranky's illustrative map to show why the .... this doesn't matter.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0...5&source=embed
Drive over an hour to another airport; that's what I do in a non-EAS market for better flight times and lower fares. At the end of the day the business travelers weren't spending enough money on these flights to justify them.
The EAS is some ....... attempt to placate rural voters and wastes tax $. There's no reason to subsidize air service with federal tax $, especially with the deficit continuing to balloon.
Thanks armchair CEO.
Something these flights weren't.
If 2x daily air service is what makes your rural business un0competitive, you're in the wrong business.
Delta did and decided it wasn't worth it.
Logic...
What value?
What other course of action would you suggest, not stemming the bleeding and dying of 1,000 cuts?
Europeans don't quite get the concept of capitalism, you should know that by now...
At MLB we've seen the same issue... DL has dropped down to 4x daily on D95's that are on time (in the afternoon) no more than 1-2x week... After over a month of delays and last minute changes, I'm about to write my convenient hometown airport off (just like MANY of us did 2 years ago when service turned to all CR7).
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0...5&source=embed
Drive over an hour to another airport; that's what I do in a non-EAS market for better flight times and lower fares. At the end of the day the business travelers weren't spending enough money on these flights to justify them.
The EAS is some ....... attempt to placate rural voters and wastes tax $. There's no reason to subsidize air service with federal tax $, especially with the deficit continuing to balloon.
And I'm a customer that they make way more than they deserve off of by ripping me off for a 40 minute CRJ ride to MSP. I understand that it isnt cheap to operate flights to these markets, but if they werent stupid they would stop trying to make so many turns a day work in a CRJ and go with one or two mainline a day or keep the Saab, which is nearly perfect for all of these markets.
Something these flights weren't.
With all due respect, this is just a silly comment. Most of the these communities don't have the resources to "pass the hat and guarantee revenue" as you say. To be sure some do have small businesses that are vibrant, but not in a scale to provide a subsidy. Unfortunately no good alternatives (like rail that they have in Europe) exist.
I'll grant that things have changed in many ways since Delta acquired these markets, not the least of which is high cost of oil, still, Northwest made a go of it in these markets and Delta can't or won't. The issue is partially linked with the demise of the SAABs and Mesaba, a demise that was initiated under NW bankruptcy management and furthered by Delta.
I used to travel to many of these small places in a previous job. Whenever I asked people who lived there if they used their local airport they almost always laughed and then said they made the drive to XYZ econo hub or spoke for better fares and direct flights. Time to pull the plug on the EAS.
Country folk are used to driving long distances. They do live in the COUNTRY after all.
Country folk are used to driving long distances. They do live in the COUNTRY after all.
As DL isn't a public sector utility-- even as DL relies upon public sector allowances -- these cuts shouldn't be a surprise. DL will do a lot of things to try to make more money, and cutting itself into "profitability" like this is just another sign of that. AA and UA/CO are on the same path. Lemmings, the lot of them.
Europeans don't quite get the concept of capitalism, you should know that by now...
Speaking from a personal perspective I hate that Delta made this decision, but from a business perspective, I completely understand. Our community has not supported air service like they could/should have so we really have nobody to blame but ourselves. HSV is only 60 miles away so for a lot of folks, they have more choices from there. I'm going to miss the $2/day parking and being home in 10 minutes that's for sure. Supposedly, Delta has committed to RJ service here starting Sept. 1 so it will be interesting to see if this will have any effect on pax count here.....
Last edited by Canarsie; Jul 19, 2011 at 8:54 pm Reason: Consolidation.
Jul 19, 2011, 7:38 pm
#112
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Jul 19, 2011, 9:05 pm
#114
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Besides some much needed history refreshers for certain smug Euros, I can tell you that I took flights to a number of these spots over the years. It always was the same thing... empty airports with no service.... cancelled flights with little options for recovery. Limited times, triple connects, delays... hell, I ended up driving half the time to avoid spending an extra day or to actually make a meeting... maybe I had a bad run of luck, but many of those cities on that list seemed to have a war story and a bigger airport not too far away... to me, many of these spots were poorly serviced and though we know travel is not always a given, I try to keep land mines out of the process... hopefully, this move will allow better service to the HSVs and Bloomingtons of the world...
Jul 19, 2011, 11:08 pm
#115
Join Date: Jun 2005
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When it no longer was relatively economical to fly DC-7s, did airlines stop flying to those destinations or did they switch to a different aircraft and different route/fleet models?
DL, a quintessentially American company, is intending to again socialize losses but privatize profit and is just cynically posturing itself at the government handout trough again.
DL, a quintessentially American company, is intending to again socialize losses but privatize profit and is just cynically posturing itself at the government handout trough again.
Last edited by Klm is Dead - Long Live KLM; Jul 19, 2011 at 11:16 pm
Jul 19, 2011, 11:15 pm
#117
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Why would DL management care about being yelled at by some state office politicians? DL isn't afraid of a "bite" that is just "bark" before and still isn't more than that. DL's been toying with the local pols for years but it has enough of the federal government in its pocket to do as it pleases largely with impunity (as long as DL sucks up to enough federal government elements, as DL has done).
Jul 20, 2011, 12:16 am
#118
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Besides some much needed history refreshers for certain smug Euros, I can tell you that I took flights to a number of these spots over the years. It always was the same thing... empty airports with no service.... cancelled flights with little options for recovery. Limited times, triple connects, delays... hell, I ended up driving half the time to avoid spending an extra day or to actually make a meeting... maybe I had a bad run of luck, but many of those cities on that list seemed to have a war story and a bigger airport not too far away... to me, many of these spots were poorly serviced and though we know travel is not always a given, I try to keep land mines out of the process... hopefully, this move will allow better service to the HSVs and Bloomingtons of the world...
Not all companies are big and powerful enough to demand immunity from prosecution to break both the anti-trust and competition laws on the books. Nor can more than a handful then become too big to fail or to be told what to do so that they can perpetually have their hand up the back of some Congressman puppet shaking out taxpayer dollars and specialized treatment, such as Delta, the oil companies and the investment banksters.
One thing is for sure: when small businesses located in the heartland of America can no longer depend on there being a basic, stable and usable infrastructure present, then these businesses are going to falter, fail and/or move to a country that does have conditions that are conducive to business. We seem to have seen a lot of that happening over the past three decades as communities wither and jobs and a secure middle class lifestyle have been exported and expunged, never to return again. And, the performance of the US has been dragging far behind that of its cross Atlantic trading partner already before these latest moves to decommission the last remnants of a national air transportation network through retreat and surrender...
The European economy is boosted by a thriving small- and medium-size business sector. In fact, that sector provides two-thirds of the total employment in the EU, compared with only about half of the total employment in the USA. While the American business community touts the idea that small businesses are the backbone of the US economy, Europe has far more small and medium-size enterprises than does America. These small businesses have been able to keep pace with profitability of large companies by being smart and efficient, light on their feet and technologically advanced. [through modern-day, innovative capitalism] they pool their resources and talents in larger networks, including industrial clusters and cooperatives, to gain the advantages of economies of scale without sacrificing innovativeness and flexibility of smaller-scale operations.
...and they can actually have their customers, employees and vendors reach them easily and conveniently through modern and efficient multi-mode transportation systems.
Jul 20, 2011, 5:11 am
#119
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Poor service is made better by becoming no service at all? What an interesting way to rationalize retreat and defeat.
Not all companies are big and powerful enough to demand immunity from prosecution to break both the anti-trust and competition laws on the books. Nor can more than a handful then become too big to fail or to be told what to do so that they can perpetually have their hand up the back of some Congressman puppet shaking out taxpayer dollars and specialized treatment, such as Delta, the oil companies and the investment banksters.
One thing is for sure: when small businesses located in the heartland of America can no longer depend on there being a basic, stable and usable infrastructure present, then these businesses are going to falter, fail and/or move to a country that does have conditions that are conducive to business. We seem to have seen a lot of that happening over the past three decades as communities wither and jobs and a secure middle class lifestyle have been exported and expunged, never to return again. And, the performance of the US has been dragging far behind that of its cross Atlantic trading partner already before these latest moves to decommission the last remnants of a national air transportation network through retreat and surrender...
http://www.amazon.com/Europes-Promis.../dp/0520261372
...and they can actually have their customers, employees and vendors reach them easily and conveniently through modern and efficient multi-mode transportation systems.
Not all companies are big and powerful enough to demand immunity from prosecution to break both the anti-trust and competition laws on the books. Nor can more than a handful then become too big to fail or to be told what to do so that they can perpetually have their hand up the back of some Congressman puppet shaking out taxpayer dollars and specialized treatment, such as Delta, the oil companies and the investment banksters.
One thing is for sure: when small businesses located in the heartland of America can no longer depend on there being a basic, stable and usable infrastructure present, then these businesses are going to falter, fail and/or move to a country that does have conditions that are conducive to business. We seem to have seen a lot of that happening over the past three decades as communities wither and jobs and a secure middle class lifestyle have been exported and expunged, never to return again. And, the performance of the US has been dragging far behind that of its cross Atlantic trading partner already before these latest moves to decommission the last remnants of a national air transportation network through retreat and surrender...
http://www.amazon.com/Europes-Promis.../dp/0520261372
...and they can actually have their customers, employees and vendors reach them easily and conveniently through modern and efficient multi-mode transportation systems.
Now that we know Western Eurpope is awesome and super smart.... again...
I was not talking about the political aspects... I was simply stating my personal experiences... these routes were just not dependable and were not serviced well. I did not even mention the fact that they appeared to be poorly supported by pax, but it is kind of spooky being outnumbered by the flight crew. ....and though it makes your story better by saying they are giving up, my point was that it may turn out better for them to give more service to some of the smaller cities an hour or so away. Which in the end, will be better than what is out there now.
In the South, we joke about Yankees who move here and then proceed to tell us how they did it back home and why it is a better way... we are typically too polite to ask them why they did not stay up there if everything was so much better... but I digress....
Jul 20, 2011, 5:53 am
#120
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 8,527
Don't fret, though. This time the Yankees aren't forcing the South to change its wayward ways at the end of loaded musket.