Don't forget that many here will (correctly) assert that DL can survive without any one of us. Some, however, will assert that DL can survive without all of us. ;)

Perfectly stated!

That is incorrect. It has not 'always been'. For many, many years, Delta sold FC seats for considerably more and hence the "left over" seats were awarded to their top customers. It is a carrot that has been dangled for many years as an integral part of their loyalty program. The P fare/FCM thing is very new to most of us who have flown for a long time and very different. Not only that, there has been no note from Delta to their loyal customers that First Class upgrades will be diminished to significantly diminished depending on your home airport and status level due to the FCm program. If you read their advertising, FC upgrades are still one of the cornerstones of the program... and the inference is not that they are going to be very limited.

It is awesome that you buy upgradable coach fares and get your FC seat instead of all of the stupid people on this website that you are so much super smarter than... but, as with a lot of your shots at folks on here, your statement was incorrect...

FCM didn't work on one of my recent flights. I was on a Full "Y" fare. Economy was pretty tight but somehow I ended up next to a lady in first, no status, and said she has only flown Delta twice this year. Her exact words were "I'm not sure how I got this seat, but I'll take it"

It wasn't a case of IRROPs either, as she was originating just like me with no previous issues.

When FCM doesn't work, they just put whoever there!

And what everyone seems to be ignoring is the MASSIVE reduction in capacity on ALL air routes and MOST airlines. There are fewer seats to go around. Fact. DL is experimenting with pricing that actually sells F seats. Fact. FC upgrades are still available for elites. Fact. There are many more elites chasing fewer F seats. Fact. Some would rather buy those than play the lottery. Fact. In some markets, that decision is the "smart" decision today (e.g. LAXATL). How can you chastise DL for actually SELLING their product rather than give it away?

So, are you conceding that you did not tell the truth when you said it has always been this way?

+1 ^^^

First class has always been for sale and anybody has been able to buy those seats before they went to elites. NW (pre-merger) had the equivalent of P fares to MANY leisure markets.

I guess it ALWAYS has been this way - people read into marketing schtick whatever suits them best.

I'm thankful the airlines have found a point at which they are generating huge profits. Advantage DL at this point. Until another financial crisis comes along (probably likely), or a major new competitor enters the market (probably unlikely), DL has us right where they want us, and they are generating huge profits. Until that changes, I can't see the situation moving in any other direction with the exception of its current trajectory.

People can threaten, prognosticate, and roll around in hatred on here all they want. The fact is, there is nowhere to go.

WN's success with their revenue-based program shows where this is all headed.

Adapt. For the love of everything holy, it is an airline...not your spouse.

The difference that I see is that DL use to have a pretty reliable pricing model in which the cheapest seats sold first and as inventory declined, the fare levels rose (this goes for both cabins). When the first threads of FCM started popping up, I had a hard time finding any fares that didn't jive with my opening sentence. Yes, I found fares in the forward cabin for say $50 to $100 more than a coach fare, but that was for a Y fare.

The dangerous game DL now seems to be playing is one of reducing prices in F as available inventory drops especially close in. That policy is going to anger a fair number of educated flyers that are extremely loyal to DL and/or paying higher coach fares because at the time of booking, no such P fare existed. Talk about feeling like you got ripped off.

You can attempt to paint whatever picture you like and can assume the rest of us are not aware of the situation if you like, but you made an inaccurate statement and have tried to cover it up with words. That works in politics, but not on this website....

...and that does not count the part about you taking great liberties in correlating "record profits" with the devaluing of the loyalty program....

I will also remind you for the Lord knows how many'ith time that when the loyalty program is not wort the effort, people will not stay loyal to Delta or one airline for that matter which will lead to even more competition for fares... and of course, some will just stay home more....

Fact: There is a CURRENT marketing campaign in ATL highlighting that Delta is ADDING more FC seats. It goes on to summarize that we can expect MORE COMPLEMENTARY UPGRADES for frequent flyers.

This is no joke... Delta's marketing and RM groups are truly this siloed and have goals that are this incompatible.

I don't have a problem with less free upgrades. I have a problem with the left hand saying one thing while the right hand b*tch slaps anyone who is dumb enough to believe the left hand.

egg...chicken....egg....chicken...again...again... .again.

Kettles are bringing a LOT to DL's table with fees. More than low-rev "Elites".

Hell, look at NK - they are DOWNRIGHT HOSTILE to their passengers and have the highest margins in the industry.

First, prove that and then explain to us non business types how that all works out....

1. Once upon a time, carriers had to worry that their most high-value customers would jump ship to one of the other legacy carriers, including NW, TW & so on. Now, it's down to UA & US (AA for a while). Put simply, DL can "anger" it's HVC's as much as it wants because the same threads on UA & US complain about UG's and their sale. AA is a slightly different cup of tea with "stickers" but only slightly.

2. The solid core of HVC's is through corporate contracts which involve keeping a couple of CEO's and contract managers happy while the remainder of the workforce flies the carrier selected for them.

3. Reduced competition sometimes means elimination or close to elimination of competition (slot swap for DL/US between LGA & DCA). Yes, you can still fly TCON on DL xWAS, but it means flying South to ATL to do so while you can now fly non-stop xIAD & DCA on UA.

4. There will always be UG's to be had and maybe some will remain free. But, there's no question that system-wide, the # will drop and their availability as well. This feeds the demand for paid FC (in whatever fare bucket), that reduces freebies even more, increases demand for paid FC more and so on.

In the end, pax will have two choices: flying the 1-2 carriers which serve the market(s) they need or flying Air VideoConference.